There is something I wanted to quickly point out today. An important bit of knowledge that it is always good to keep in mind. We sometimes forget it here, partially due to the echo chamber effect, and partially because of the natural human tendency to impute our experiences onto others.
The “manosphere/androsphere” is not an accurate cross-section of society, whether American or “Western” in general. It is a biased sample, not a fair one, that skews heavily in certain areas. Most people (men in this instance) out there are “Blue Pill”, not “Red Pill.” They will not think or act the same as those who reside in this part of the internet. So patterns of behavior which might apply to men who have taken the “Red Pill” will not necessarily apply to those who are still “Blue Pill.” In fact I would go so far as to say that we should expect them to be quite different in a lot of ways.
Honesty is important, and an honest assessment will show that men in this neck of the woods are an anomaly. I certainly am. Now, that might change over time, and might even be changing now, but for the moment the majority of men are very different from those in the ‘sphere. These differences are even greater when we are talking about the Christian part of the ‘sphere.
One huge aspect of this difference lies in what a man might look for in a woman. A “Blue Pill” man will value and seek out traits and characteristics than a “Red Pill” man wouldn’t, and vice versa. For some “Blue Pill” men an education is a must for a woman, while for some “Red Pill” men it might not matter, or might even be a negative. Some “Blue Pill” men might expect and want their wife to work out of the home, whereas a “Red Pill” man might expect and want his wife to stay at home and home-school the children. Things like age, work status, dress habits, sexual history and more will all be different to some degree. They are even different between “Blue Pill” men. In addition, both will have different ideas about red flags or things to avoid in a woman. All of which is to say that a lot of what is said here only really applies to the men in these parts, not necessarily the men outside of the ‘sphere.
This has a lot of ramifications. One of them is advice to women. I and others around these parts have offered various bits of advice to women who frequent or come across our sites. However, a frank acknowledgement must be made: not all of it will work that well on outsiders, i.e., “Blue Pill” men. Sure, things like dressing in a feminine fashion and having long hair are universal (or near to it). But pieces of advice won’t always work, or will have a low chance of success. Or will carry with it hardships or consequences when applied to the general population. Chastity is a significant one, and one I’ve highlighted before. [Given the overall environment, only the most attractive women can easily marry while refusing to sleep with a guy beforehand.] Some of my advice on being more forthright and forward as a woman might also carry problems with it when interacting with “Blue Pill” men. Added together, I should probably include “caveat emptor” to all my posts, or maybe “your mileage may vary.”
In summary, the manosphere is not an accurate representation of what average men are like in the world around us. For a variety of reasons we have found this place and call it home, and as a result think, act, behave and believe differently from everyone else. This isn’t the “real world.” So take everything I say with a grain of salt, and approach everything with an open mind.
Donal Graeme 
Good reminder.
“Most people (men in this instance) out there are “Blue Pill”, not “Red Pill.””
A crucial disagreeement: All women are red pill. Even the ones who don’t know about the distinction. Even the ones who say they’re blue pill.
Agreed, guys around here are very different than nearly every guy I know in the real world.
What do you mean by that Deti? (I’m not being snarky, though it might sound that way. I actually don’t know what you mean.)
@ FBNF
That reminds me of something I forgot to mention with this post- I don’t know anyone else “in real life” who has a similar mindset/outlook to me. I’m far more orthodox/traditional than my family or any of my Catholic friends. Some people I know are familiar with some RP concepts, but not all. Certainly not like me. I was one of them, but no longer. Most just haven’t realized it yet.
As for what Deti said, I think he was saying that women don’t have the kind of delusions that men have that makes them “Blue Pill”. But I could be wrong about that.
Personally, I think that the “Blue Pill” is just different for women- they don’t have the same delusions as men, but have different ones instead.
FBNF:
all women are attracted to men who display traits of confidence and dominance (or prestige, if you prefer). All women are attracted to men who display the LAMPS factors. Few women are attracted to Nice Guys. Few women are attracted to men who exhibit only the “desirable” factors like industriousness, perseverance, fidelity, loyalty, kindness, patience, etc.
All women are attracted to men who display LAMPS whether they know it or not and whether they admit it verbally or not. Women are attracted to men who display LAMPS even if they claim they are not, because they almost universally display attraction to such men despite their verbal protestations to the contrary.
And when you talk to women about this and get all the way down to the nitty gritty, they know it deep down. Witness the video where the man talks to various women about whether women and men can be friends. Almost to a woman, they admit by word and deed that they know their male friends are attracted to them, that they are using their male friends, that their male friends are beta orbiters, and that they LIKE it this way.
“As for what Deti said, I think he was saying that women don’t have the kind of delusions that men have that makes them “Blue Pill”. But I could be wrong about that. “
Yes, correct. Novaseeker said somewhere that there’s a disparity in the delusions that each sex has about what attracts the other.
Women are very attuned to what men are attracted to. I think women understand quite well that most men are attracted to an appealing physical appearance and that this is far and away the most important factor – non obese bodies, firm breasts, shapely butts, long legs, pretty faces, nice hair, etc. I think they don’t always like it, but they get it; they comprehend it; they internalize it. Where women get hung up is on the “supermodel” complex – too many of them think the physical appearance bar is much higher than it actually is.
And of course, women are quite attuned to what they are attracted to, even if they don’t say it. They know they like guys who can hold their own in a group, who can influence their surroundings, and who look decent to them. They won’t always cop to it because they don’t want to be criticized, but they know it.
Men are attuned to what they like too (see above). Again, they don’t always say it because they get mercilessly shamed for it as shallow and superficial, but they know what they like.
The big disparity here is that most men are kept woefully in the dark and are quite deluded about what women really like, what they’re really attracted to. Most of this is societal and cultural conditioning; some of it is willful ignorance. Most women are never going to tell a guy the real reasons she’s not attracted to him. About the only place he’s going to get that information is here; and maybe from some guys in the know in real life.
Another thing that often gums up the works and makes for the SMP disparities and problems we have is this:
It’s a lot easier for a woman to bring what men are attracted to than it is for a man to bring what women are attracted to. In general a typical woman will be attractive to a wide swath of men; but a typical man will be attractive to a narrow swath of women. Only a very attractive man, top 20%, will be attractive to a wide swath of women.
“Personally, I think that the “Blue Pill” is just different for women- they don’t have the same delusions as men, but have different ones instead. “
Yes, the “blue pill” for women is more along the lines of
1. “life script” of school to college, then work; then master’s degree, then work more, interspersed with sexual experimentation, a couple of serious relationships and marriage and maybe kids at 30
2. Have to get a life skill and a mission; can’t depend on a man because of all the “What ifs”
3. Men like or are attracted to career girls with good salaries and trendy stuff
4. Men like sassy, brassy, savvy, strongindependentwomen with moxie
5. Men like well traveled women with lots of “life experience”
6. The whole “short hair is cute” thing
7. following the herd mentality
Good post, Donal. I find myself having to remind myself of that regarding what I studied in undergrad and grad school even.
“1. “life script” of school to college, then work; then master’s degree, then work more, interspersed with sexual experimentation, a couple of serious relationships and marriage and maybe kids at 30
2. Have to get a life skill and a mission; can’t depend on a man because of all the “What ifs””
How many women are willing to reject those two points that Deti laid out there? It’s a good reminder to all, as a political blogger who no longer blogs once said to her crowd, “Liberalism is in the air we breathe.” She further went on to say that we can inoculate ourselves the best we can but we may always show some traits. It can be said, for the population writ large, the same applies for feminism
“5. Men like well traveled women with lots of “life experience”” If, by life experience, you mean sexual experience, I can personally say it would be a major negative for me.
“6. The whole “short hair is cute” thing” To quote Vox, “Women, don’t cut your damn hair!”
For the women that read here, as Donal said, we’re a small set. Having said that, enjoy a peak into how we think.
Good point, Donal.
I’d also say, though, that the women who regularly participate in the manosphere (not the ones who occasionally drop in for some drive-by sniping, but the actual participants) also do not reflect most women in the real world.
It’s an outlierish group, I think, for both sexes.
” If, by life experience, you mean sexual experience”
“life experience” includes sex and sexual experiences of most kinds; but it also means work, travel, hobbies, learning new skills, etc. Most of the time “life experience” is used as a euphemism for dating around and having sex with the most attractive men available to her.
Novaseeker, I agree with you about the female regulars. They too are highly irregular (which is a compliment given the average woman these days). We all really are outliers in this part of the ‘net.
DG, The “manosphere/androsphere” is not an accurate cross-section of society, whether American or “Western” in general.
This is fairly true. However, I would qualify it:
1) “Western” society is fading demographically, and it has lost its will to stay alive. It’s going extinct, fast. Been to California lately? That happened in less than 50 years. Imagine the next 50.
2) “American” society is (in 1950’s guise) is also fading. Every year that passes the “growing” parts of the West look less and less Western…and less and less beta…and more and more like the cultures who treat women, well, let us say “more realistically”.
3) Younger men are less and less happy with the idea of supporting woman and children today, period, let alone thugspawn; they expect women to carry their own weight.
4) The number of children who grow up experiencing their mothers act badly is getting pretty large. You can actually see it in the media; motherhood is no longer seen as sacred. Too many children today know the truth.
My point is that while few claim to be members of the manosphere, many of said ideas are creeping into the hive mind. Mostly for different reasons such as my 4 points above, but it’s the ideas that matter, and I’m seeing more and more men and women “get it” even though they would deny it as such. Think about how fast feminism swept the West as an example of how quickly things change. The boomers will be gone shortly, and that’s the last of the traditional past. Gen X is much more realistic. And smaller in numbers…
One more thing: the manosphere talks about biological truths. It’s not an ideology; merely reality. In the end, the truth always wins. For example, the USSR could only last two generations before their lies ate them from the inside. The US faces a similar fate on gender issues, and every year that passes means more and more people wake up to the disaster. Add in the revolutionary internet plus the huge numbers of non-Western immigrants pouring into the West…and we have rapid change unlike anything seen before. The blue-pill beta is slated for extinction; the only question is how and how fast.
I’ve never left a reply before because the post and comments have always been far more relevant than what I could add, but I wanted to express my appreciation for this one Donal. Thank you.
@Novaseeker
This is very true.
@ Practically
You are welcome. And don’t worry about feeling like you can’t contribute. Most of my comments on my own blog are pretty worthless, but that doesn’t stop me.
@ Donal and Deti,
Thank you for explaining that. While I knew all of those things already, I wasn’t making the connection between them and Deti’s comment. Makes sense now.
@ Donal,
As for your comment to me about how you’re the most Traditional/Orthodox person among your family/friends, that you know of nobody else “in real life” that thinks like you do….
Ditto.
@ Deti,
Do women really say they aren’t attracted to the PSALM/LAMPS things? I’ve never seen or heard one say that. Just as an example, I know I’ve said I’m not attracted to the bad boy types, but I never meant I’m not attracted to the PSALM/LAMPS qualities. I just have no interest in considering one that doesn’t also have the desirable traits. The “Godly Masculinity” types are the top-tier men IMO. It’s like this ~ say if a gorgeous woman walks by and is dressed slutty. A man like Donal (for example) will have an automatic visceral attraction to her, but will have zero interest in considering marrying her because of her sluttiness.
@ A Visitor,
I wish this wasn’t a small set. The guys around here are the best.