Despite the Evil One’s best efforts, there are still young Christian men and women in the US who aim to avoid the sinfulness of the modern American Sexual Market-Place. Rather than seeking immediate sexual gratification, this faithful remnant wishes to marry and raise a family in accordance with God’s commandments. Unfortunately, there are a number of hurdles which have been placed in their way to prevent them from living a righteous life:
1) The Church is no longer a supportive institution. The manosphere is full of horror stories of American churches doing their best to keep young people from marrying. Whether it comes from ideas like “Kiss Dating Goodbye” or actively decrying the idea of marrying young, the environment in many American churches is toxic. Many of them are feminized to one degree or another, and discourage Alpha attributes in men.
2) They have no convenient means of locating one another. Most churches are social clubs now, and some of them are little better than “Sunday Morning Nightclubs. ” Two generations ago you could be fairly certain that you could find Mr. Right or Ms. Right at church; that surety is as extinct as the dodo.
3) The general culture discourages young marriage. Women especially are encouraged to “find themselves”, and to only marry after they have acquired what Dalrock has termed “feminist merit badges.”
This raises the question: what are young Christians looking to get married to do? How are they supposed to react to this kind of situation, an environment which is more hostile to true Christians then any since the early followers of The Way were forced into the catacombs by Rome?
I have a few ideas, and intend for this to be the beginning of a series of posts concerning different strategies that young Christians looking to marry can take in order to help them find a Christian wife or husband. Hopefully I will be able to convince a few other bloggers to add their own thoughts and ideas on the subject. My goal is for this to be a community project for the manosphere, as many bloggers are in a position similar to myself or will be facing this problem in a few years as their children get older.
What do I mean by The One?
I should be clear that when I say “The One”, I don’t mean a “soul-mate.” In fact my use of the phrase is intentionally ironic. The concept of a soul-mate is un-Christian, and has no place in Christian discourse. In fact, the search for a “soul-mate” is a core component of the sexual immorality prevalent in the Church today via the practice of serial monogamy. As a Christian, you want to avoid “oneitis.” Instead of looking for some mythical person out there who God made just for you, you want to look for your “One and Only.” A person who is a good match or fit for you, someone whom you can work with and spend the rest of your life with.
Future Posts in this series:
1) Location, Location, Location
Update: I am working on the next post in this series, a sort of “episode 0” which will briefly cover some basic differences in how Christian men and women will need to approach this problem.
Donal Graeme 
I’ve been thinking of something similar, particularly in concert with you, actually. I look forward to your thoughts.
Look forward to reading this series and hopefully contributing as well. From what I understand of “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” it doesn’t appear to discourage dating altogether but to approach it with the right attitude, or something. I’d have to read it for myself to learn what message it’s truly trying to convey.
By the same token though, I wonder why so many churches have come to quickly endorse (with little or no scrutiny) a book written by a 21 year old kid.
Frank:
I think these churches endorsed “IKDG” and other self-help books on Christian sexuality for several reasons.
First, the churches know that what donal has outlined above are problems. They know their young singles want to marry but have a hell of a time finding anyone decent. They know that virtually all of them are or have been sexually active outside marriage. They know they’re in a culture that not only rejects, but is openly hostile to, Christian sexual morality.
Second, they have no real idea what to do about it. they want to remain faithful to Christian teaching and doctrine on sexual morality but don’t want to alienate anyone in the name of “fairness” and “Christian love”.
Third, they advocate a return to traditional dating and “courtship” because they’re consistent with Christian sexual morality. The problem is they’re swimming up stream against a cultural tsunami and most aren’t standing up to it at all. Courtship would require early marriage and most women just aren’t going to do that in the face of a veritable sexual smorgasbord.
So, the problem is primarliy cultural, I think.
I have read IKDG, and it absolutely discourages dating. It is all about the “courtship” idea, but Joshua Harris kinda gets that wrong as well (though, he is a great guy – I have met him, very funny – very short, too).
So, Donal, do you think this advice you will be disseminating also be useful for the single (never married) 35 year old guy looking for a good wife?
I never read IKDG, but from what I have heard about it from other people in the manosphere it created a hostile environment for meeting other single Christians in many churches. Or perhaps I am thinking of another book; either way, it is part of a culture which ignores the real problems going on.
“They know their young singles want to marry but have a hell of a time finding anyone decent. They know that virtually all of them are or have been sexually active outside marriage.”
Actually, I think you are talking two separate groups in each sentence Deti. The first group is looking for single Christians who aren’t in the second. The second are not those this post and its progeny are meant for; they have actively chosen to embrace the culture, to become “of the world.”
” Courtship would require early marriage and most women just aren’t going to do that in the face of a veritable sexual smorgasbord. ”
Women tend to be against early marriage because the culture discourages it; if churches started to actually encourage young marriage again then things would start to change.
Some of it, yes. It depends on your situation, naturally. And your disposition. Are you willing to look outside your immediate geographic area? Outside the country? Are you willing to invest the time required?
I think the biggest thing is that they’re not recognizing this as a satanic attack. It’s not merely a neutral shift in culture changes. It is a systematic effort to make it virtually impossible for both men and women to marry wisely.
Of course he did. He was barely out of his teens when he wrote this book, and was not writing from the experience of one who successfully found someone and happily married (then). With his second book, he strikes me as the equivalent of a lottery winner who then goes on to write a book about how others can easily win the lottery too. In other words, the advice is impractical, unhelpful, and ultimately specious.
1. My situation is single.
2. My disposition is…male?
3. I usually look outside of my geographic area. I am in the PNW. Good women are thin on the ground up here.
4. I have more than once thought about looking outside the country. I hear Japan is nice.
5. It’s not like I am spending my time being all married and such.
Recently, a friend and I were discussing what I have been learning ever since I found the manosphere/red pill. He looked at me and said, “At this point, it’s like you are a foreigner in a foreign land. The kind of woman you are looking for doesn’t grow here anymore.”
“At this point, it’s like you are a foreigner in a foreign land. The kind of woman you are looking for doesn’t grow here anymore.”
Sounds like someone who gets it.
As for your disposition, what I meant was this:
1) Are you a Christian? If so, what denomination?
2) Are you financially secure enough to spend a lot of time looking for a wife?
3) Are you only looking for a wife from your own ethnic background, or are you willing to look outside it?
Those all impact the advice that I would give.
1. Yes, very much so. Not really part of any denomination, per se. The church I currently attend is technically Baptist, though I don’t think they really realize it. I have attended Baptist, FourSquare, AoG, Charismatic, and Non-Denominational churches.
2. I am in great shape financially. No debt whatsoever, and I make over 65K/year.
3. My ethnic background is German, English, Welsh, Irish, Scottish, and I think even American Indian. I am not terribly hung up on ethnicity.
thehap, funny I’m in a similar boat, although I’m Italian myself, so right there I already have alpha traits by default (kidding, kidding… maybe)
Something tells me my recently renewed passport is gonna be getting a workout in the near future…
Looking at it, you might want to start saving money and planning for a trip overseas in the near future. Begin by getting your Passport if you haven’t already. Then you need to determine if you want to head to Asia or Eastern Europe. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. I’m still not sure on all of them myself, which is part of the reason for this series, I’m hoping to pool collective knowledge.
I’ve been looking at Eastern Europe myself. As much as women are apt to treat men eons better in these countries, there’s a few caveats. Most of these women hail from a religious culture that is at odds with evangelical Christianity. I was reading about the difficulties some men faced when meeting Russian women for example, and hoping they would easily transition from an orthodox/secular background to a Christian one, and it’s mostly wishful thinking. You would have to meet a woman who already shares the same faith, or at least very close to it, which means the likeliest prospect would be those involved in the missions outreach by a church of the same denomination. I believe one of my old Facebook friends met someone this way, via a missions trip where he met a very cute girl in I think Romania (if not Romania then definitely one of the satellite states surrounding Russia) and eventually got engaged to her.
The problem with this is how many hurdles one would have to leap just to get to the point where you might meet someone. First, in finding a church that does missions in those areas, then becoming a member long enough that you can sign up for it, and then finally going and just hoping by God’s providence you’ll meet someone compatible in the meantime, and then navigating the many obstacles you’d have to face even after you meet someone.
I am definitely interested in this series of posts.
I did read IKDG in high school and will comment more tomorrow when I get the chance.
You could try seeking out and immersing yourself in conservative homeschooling communities, particularly those aligned with organizations such as Vision Forum, HSLDA, and the NCFIC. Patrick Henry College would be another field to research.
As churches die, the parents who really care about the chastity and eternal security of their offspring are bailing out and uniting under the banner of “family-integrated” churches, many of which are populated almost entirely by homeschooling families (homeschooling being another way of leaving the larger American culture).
It’s not going to be easy, since these circles are ideologically-driven, calvinistic (for the most part), and insular (newcomers are received cautiously). But if you attend a few conferences, or find a NCFIC church and chat people up, it’s possible to learn the lingo, understand what opinions are accepted by the community, and potentially snag one of the very numerous & virginal HB 7+ that frequent these events. Girls are expected to desire children, be homemakers, and submit to their future husbands.
The catch is that a suitor for one of these girls would be screened closely by the father and / or family, and it wouldn’t be advisable to bluff your way through this process. The beliefs of your prospective spouse would have to be your own — homeschooling must rank pretty high on that list.
This said, if you could accept the tenants of your particular circle, a key advantage of the community would be the enforcement of a marriage if one occurred — divorce is akin to death for most.
So now that I have a few minutes, I’ll reflect on my Churchian high school youth group days.
When my family started going to an Evangelical church when I was in 8th grade, I joined the youth group. I found a good number of friends in this youth group, including my best friend who remains so today. It did me a lot of good at the time. However, the one thing that really screwed me over for years to come was IKDG. There were girls I was interested in during high school, but didn’t date because of that book. Not dating in high school very much hindered my relational development for years to come. I didn’t know how to set up or ask for a date or anything like that. No one had taught me or encouraged me in that.
The few times I was interested in hanging out with a girl or got a girl interested, my mother figured it out and intervened in one way or another. She actively prevented me from going on dates and made me feel ashamed for wanting to do so. Which, now that I realize it, caused me issues as well. I took control of that relationship years ago, thankfully. Though I realize now there will be issues that come up in the future should I ever bring a girl with the potential to marry. I’ll basically have to shut my mother down, because she will actively try to cock-block me or plant doubt in my mind about my choice.
It wasn’t until after college that I finally asked a girl out. She was 2 years older and very pleasent. We went on 2 dates, and nothing further developed, which was fine. I probably couldn’t have handled more at the time.
I blame much of the issues that my generation (Gen Y) of Christians is having dating and getting married on that book. It planted in everyone’s minds that God would bring along this perfect human for them to marry and they would instantly know that God placed them their to marry each other. It was a load of shit. That wasn’t how his parents got married. That wasn’t how my parents got married. That wasn’t how any parents in the church got married. That wasn’t how anyone’s parents got married. But that didn’t matter, it sounded good to Churchians and that is what their children would do.
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“that book …. planted in everyone’s minds that God would bring along this perfect human for them to marry and they would instantly know that God placed them their to marry each other.
“That wasn’t how anyone’s parents got married. But that didn’t matter, it sounded good to Churchians and that is what their children would do.”
This mindset is the primary problem young single Christians are having. I wish bskillet and Christian Men’s Defense Network were still around; his posts were yeoman’s work in explaining what was and still is going on in churches. Too many girls thinking God is grooming and selecting a special man just for them; too many boys thinking God would bring them a special girl and all he has to do is be nice nice nice and kind and she will love him for how nice he is.
It’s all shit. All of it. We have girls who are absolute ballbusters and will accept nothing less than total perfection. We have men who don’t know how to sack up, figure out what they want, and then go after it.
I still don’t understand the premise behind the book, mainly because what Christian sincere in the faith dates just for the sake of dating? Wouldn’t we all date with marriage on our minds anyway? So what’s the prob?
Unless Harris promotes such a passive view of dating and courtship that one literally should expend no effort into finding the ONE, and just presume the ONE will fall in his/her laps when the time is right.
Maybe I should read this book and write a book length’s rebuttal, because it seems to be doing a severe amount of damage to the church’s youth.
I’d give you my copy but I leant it to a girl who was a whore in our church and never got it back. It didn’t do her much good, either. She got pregnant out of wedlock when she was 19.
LOL, stories like that are a dime a dozen.
I figured you’d enjoy the irony.
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I luckily never did the teen youth garbage, so I wasn’t directly and personally exposed to crap such as I Kissed Dating Goodbye. A blog on it here. It didn’t take very long into my blogging career (and my personal life after I “accepted Christ”) to discover the effects, and not much longer after that to discover the book was to blame.
As I understand it, the book was useful along with the purity movement (which turned out to be garbage as most of us well know now) in the minds of parents. The idea was to limit fornication and keep people “Godly”. So, segregation and group activities were stressed with the idea as Deti writes that God would point out “the one he set on the earth just for you”. One of the resultant problems was that it rendered young (and later old) men and women unable to interact with one another on a one-on-one interpersonal fashion.
I see now the first link didn’t go through. It’s http://ikdg.wordpress.com/
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Donal, one of the last strongholds of practicing Christian women in the US is homeschoolers. I would try to get into that community before going to look overseas for a wife. Homeschooling groups in my area tend to be associated with a church — and a lot of the singles who have graduated still attend.
You want young marriage? They tend to marry young. You want a low divorce rate? Check it. You want women who you can build a life with? Most of them spend their childhood dreaming of being a wife and mother.
That is indeed where my current hope lies within the US. I have been trying to find ways to connect with it, which has proven more difficult than I hoped.
Please, please, please don’t any of you Evangelical guys go to Eastern Europe and try to convert our sweet traditional Orthodox girls. It isn’t a good fit.
There are lots of Russian Baptists.
Leave the Orthodox girls for the Ortho converts piling up over here 🙂
I can’t speak for the others, but I am Catholic myself, so Poland was always my top choice for EE. Although I don’t think it would be too much of a problem to convert a sweet traditional Orthodox girl over to a sweet traditional Catholic girl.
Try Croatia. Croatian girls are lovely, basically Catholic Serbs, although I’d be hung for saying that, and Serbian women are among the most beautiful on the planet.
I will definitely keep that in mind, thanks.
I envy you.
You should make a beeline for the nearest Maronite Rite Church. You could attend the Cadillac of liturgies; St. John Chrysostom’s Mass, and date Lebanese girls.
And stay married if you decide to go for the priesthood.
Can’t lose
I’ve always been curious about the Eastern Rite Church, so perhaps this is something I should check out. Not sure if there is one nearby though.
Question for the men-
What does a single Christian man look for in a potential wife? What really matters, and what doesn’t really matter? I have come across guys who will string me along in case someone better came along. After I while, I moved on. One guy told me that he didn’t get a word from God that I was “the one”, so he wanted me to keep waiting. I waited a little, then moved on. Why are decent women getting passed up? Even some beautiful looking good women are being overlooked.
I wrote a short list out on a later post, I will re-post it for you:
1) Dresses in a modest and feminine manner
2) Chaste
3) Sweet and gentle
4) Respectful
5) Devout
I should write a longer list when I get a chance (maybe tomorrow).
Now, those are desirable traits, not “attraction” traits. I will be honest and admit that a woman who has those, but who doesn’t generate a spark of attraction in me, will get passed over. That may seems cruel, but it is based on human behavior and scripture (1 Cor 7).
Also, men are very, very picky when it comes to commitment. Our attraction filters are low, but our commitment filters are very high. Sometimes this can make us too picky, just like women can sometimes be too picky.
Thank you… I appreciate your feedback. I’ve never prayed so much in my life before. It’s a challenge being single & having a strong desire for a relationship. I don’t want to make any mistakes or get ahead of myself when it comes to dealing with potential partners.
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😮 😮 I’m so glad I found this Blog! 😮 I just can’t wait to read the rest of it! 🙂 🙂 These are the exact same problems I see in every day life.
My just one question to you is what’s the difference between the one and your soul-mate?? Just a little confused is all. Thank you very much! 🙂 🙂 🙂
A good question Ava. I haven’t really kept up on that series, which is a shame, I think there is a lot to cover there.
The idea behind a “soul-mate” is someone who is pre-chosen or pre-destined to be your mate for life. Basically, that it was fated to be, meant to be. Your personal choices and even really your free will don’t play a part in it.
“The One”, on the other hand, represents an idea that someone can be the one for you. That they can be right for you, and that things can work out between the of you. It is about recognizing that this person is someone you can build the rest of your life with, if you make the choice and commitment to do so.
In one sentence? A soul-mate is whomever God/Fate decides is perfect for you, which means that any troubles with a relationship means that it wasn’t fated to be (even if you are married); while “the one” is the person you choose to be your life-long partner for as long as you should live.
Yes, that was a rather long sentence. Can’t help it, just my nature. 🙂
😀 That makes SO much sense!! 😀 😀 Basically if you go in with too many expectations, your only going to be disappointed. I think I get it. 🙂 🙂
Ha! You are just fine. You should see me! I’m always talking! 😛 😀