A Poor Example

I have been reading with some interest this post over at Scott’s blog. The comments in particular have made for fascinating reading. It has been something of an encapsulation of years of discussion in the ‘sphere in just one comment thread.

I am still trying to put together my own response to the post. My suspicion is that it will result in several separate posts, as there is a lot to cover. But before I go there, I want to make an observation about myself and my own writing.

One of the problems in my writing that has plagued me since the beginning of my time in the ‘sphere has been projection. I have projected far too much of myself into assessing how others (mostly men), would act or react in different situations. That is a problem because, as the post title suggests, I am a poor example.

I am abnormal. Heck, even for the manosphere I am abnormal. I am an outlier among outliers. Which means, frankly, that any advice I give is suspect if it is based on an assumption of what a man other than myself would do.

This has held me back from a lot of writing, especially when it comes to advice. I used to do that often in the beginning. With all of that in mind, I won’t bother trying to give advice any more. I don’t think it can really help anyone.

However, I would like to think that I am good at analyzing systems. So when I get a chance I will try and apply that skill to what is discussed in Scott’s post and comments.

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11 Comments

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11 responses to “A Poor Example

  1. Larry

    I am a regular church-going Catholic man, just found this site and frankly don’t get the insider lingo that you use. Anyway, I read the referenced article and started in the comments but quickly lost interest.

    However there was one commenter that pretty much echoes my feelings, starting thirty years ago up to the present.

    He is:
    – 24 years old (and lifts weights regularly? Why is there such a preoccupation with that? Whatever.)
    – good job
    – reasonable social skill
    – regular church-going Catholic
    – wants to follow “the rules” about birth control and premarital sex
    – But not really looking for women, unwilling to deal with the required anxiety, that comes along with doing so
    – The Church provides NO social events to help him.
    – So why bother.

    Where I disagree with him is that he “sees attractive girls of the right age every single Sunday.” I never ever did. I used to think that was a cop-out on my part, but I have simply never met or even been made aware of a woman roughly my own age, that was a single and available Catholic. Or even a single and unavailable Catholic, for that matter. My generation left the Church and I’m the only one left. I look around the parishes that I attend and 95% of the married couples are older than me, mostly much older. I think the next twenty years will be bleak times for the Church, and I’m in a supposed “growth area” in the southern US. The majority of my fellow parishioners will die off and the marriage rate is near zero.

    The 24-year-old gives his reasons that “girls cant find guys like me (or better)”. In his generation, the girls don’t look for him; in mine, there were never any looking in the first place. Either way, it’s an impasse that the Church closes its eyes to.

  2. Larry-

    The lingo is a pain in the ass and I hate it too. And I’ve been at this for about 4 years.

    I’m glad you found the Christian part of the manosphere. I hope you stick around, learn what’s going here and are bossed by it.

    Take care, brother. You are among friends.

  3. Correction: blessed, not “bossed.”

  4. Also, that 24 year old commenter? I’ve never seen him on my site. He’s new.

    But he is a microcosm of the manosphere. He could the poster boy for why this part of the Internet exists.

  5. MK

    One of the problems in my writing has been projection. That is a problem because I am a poor example.

    Disagree on this one. I’m reasonably objective regarding the MMP (e.g. an observer not participant) & find your views realistic, not projection. YMMV.

    Our culture is on life support. An objective person should expect failure and be in awe of success. Yet that’s not the tone of the linked post. It seemed more “surprised” at the misfire.

    Traditional marriage is the exception today, not the rule. The risks for trad men, even with a decent woman, loom large enough she must be truly exceptional to justify the risk. Women flake. The slightest warning sign can spook him. A million ways for this clutch to slip. This ain’t 1950 anymore.

    What newness makes marriage so difficult today?
    1) Our society lacks a shared culture. Who decides what?
    2) Raised with TV? It’s then the common shared value.
    3) School institutionalizes over marriage/family/church.
    4) Processed food, lack of exercise, BC? Unattractive health, looks, moods.
    5) Small, non-extended family weaken the marriage skill set.
    6) Materialism leads to family division, work stress.

    It’s amazing to me anyone marries anymore. When I got married, everyone was shocked (including me). My own mother was shocked. I think that approach is what every parent should take today. Ideas (1-6 above) have consequences. It’s time to own them.

  6. J

    @Donal

    Man, I really appreciate your blog and your perspective. I guess I’m also a poor example, because (as a 30s single christian man) I relate to most of what you write.

    The sad reality of my experience is that church leadership simply does nothing in this area. And even when they feint at doing something, it usually does more harm than good. Whatever the reason (fear, laziness, selfishness, blindness), our leaders simply WILL NOT address the fallout of the sexual revolution/feminism. Perhaps they are blind to how these ideas have infiltrated mainstream christian thinking?

    When a single Xtian man points out these issues, it’s invariably met with emotional abuse — a patronizing pat on the shoulder or an implied (or sometimes direct) “suggestion” that you are bitter or not “surrendered enough” to God. Common sense (not to mention Genesis 2 and other sections of the Bible) tells us that God created us (most of us) for marriage. Yet if you point out the broader issue, you are the one with the problem. How convenient.

    My personal challenge right now is to find creative ways to speak to church leaders and get them to acknowledge what is going on. Ultimately I think this issue is a manifestation of a larger one, namely that the church (as a whole) no longer can hear the voice of the Spirit — a favorite blogger of mine refers to the Spirit as “The Holy Who?”

    Even when outnumbered and with our back to the wall, we should keep fighting to the last. “But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul. (Heb 10:39)”

    @MK

    “It’s amazing to me anyone marries anymore.” In real life conversation, I say that exact line several times a month 🙂

    Your 6 points are really helpful. Coming from an evangelical background, it’s been frustrating for me to watch tradition being thrown out the window in a headlong rush to embrace novelty. Without a healthy culture (and agriculture) our society and our spiritual life is adversely impacted.

  7. @ MK

    Disagree on this one. I’m reasonably objective regarding the MMP (e.g. an observer not participant) & find your views realistic, not projection. YMMV.

    When it comes to observations, maybe. But giving advice is another matter entirely. I am too much of an outlier to offer much in the way of accurate predictions of behavior.

  8. @ J

    Welcome to the blog. Always glad to have a new voice present. And I have experienced, albeit to a lesser degree, some of what you have described.

    My pastor has no delusions about the market, so I don’t get those from him, at least. It helps he isn’t from the US and is very orthodox in his beliefs.

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  10. I didn’t have the heart to say it outright on Scott’s blog because I was his guest, but the root problem is “Daddy polishing his shotgun”, male hypergamy. A father who tries to pick out a general among lieutenants is no different, in morality or realistic expectations, than a woman crying there are no good men.

    The solution is simple: fathers must treat his marriageable daughter like a lit stick of dynamite and pass her off to the first willing, half-decent suitor he finds. He does not have time to “cast a bigger net” because his daughter is one PUA encounter away from being sexually ruined. “She needs a husband NOW, you’re the best man I can find NOW, you win!” is the right attitude. It’s better for her to be married to a fat Unix guru living in Disney Corp’s basement than endure Alpha ghosts forever whispering unhappiness. If she’s a virgin then he’ll still be the best she’s ever had.

    But telling a father he needs to treat his daughter as a liability, and his new son-in-law as an asset even if he doesn’t resemble one, is best done from a safe distance.

    “I am abnormal. Heck, even for the manosphere I am abnormal. I am an outlier among outliers. Which means, frankly, that any advice I give is suspect if it is based on an assumption of what a man other than myself would do.”

    Don’t sell yourself short. If you were normal then your blog would be useless like all the other normal blogs of normal people. Normies suck and they know it. They read us weirdos because we’re outside their world looking in, thinking thoughts they would never have had on their own. Smarter normies appreciate that. Dumber normies go back to NASCAR.

    Sounds like you need a new horizon. Do something you’ve never done before, like visiting a ski resort in the summertime or a police ride-along.

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