Analyzing Attraction- Part 3

This is Part 3 of an ongoing series concerning sexual attraction. Part 1 can be found here, and part 2 here.

Subjective Considerations

In the last post on this subject, Elspeth sought clarification about the objectivity of attraction factors versus their subjectivity. I’ve attempted to cover such subjects before, but not to great success. So here is an attempt to try again.

My original argument was that the LAMPS factors are objective factors, in that each women’s evaluation of a man’s sexual attractiveness is controlled by them. However, a better way of describing them is that they are universal. They apply to all women, regardless of individual characteristics. In that sense it is objective. However, past that point there is a lot of subjectivity involved.

As a general rule, the PSALM model is the arrangement from the most to the least important attributes: Power, Status, Athleticism, Looks and Money. However, even there you will find some variation. Some women are much more focused on a man’s appearance, while others don’t really care much at all. So while generalizations are possible, they are not perfect. Subjectivity matters here.

Furthermore, inside the individual factors subjectivity can play a significant role. Looks and Athleticism are the most subjective of the 5 sets of attributes. Some women prefer men with dark hair, some with light hair. Eye color preferences vary. As do other features. However, there are still certain general masculine features in the Looks category which are almost universally preferred. This is especially the case with facial features. Height is an interesting twist to this. The general preference is for a taller man, however the exact height preferred can differ between women. The ideal range, from what I can tell, seems to be around 6’0 to 6’4. Athleticism also has some variation- some women prefer a man with a swimmer build, others prefer the lean look of a runner, while yet others prefer the bulk of a weight lifter. Yet even in this the overall preference is still towards the ideal of each particular build.

Status and Money are the most objective of the LAMPS factors. Here it is pretty safe to say that the more, the merrier. More money and a greater status are always more attractive. Status might leave more room for subjectivity, in that some positions might be seen as higher status than others for some women. But overall there tends to be a lot of conformity here.

Power is hard to analyze here. There are a lot of subjective factors when personality is concerned, yet certain things (confidence, assurance, dominance) seem to be universally attractive. I’d be curious of folks’ thoughts on this.

Our Ideals Are Not Necessarily Ideal

The Daily Mail, not normally a news source of mine, had an interesting article recently. Essentially, a survey was conducted which asked questions related to sex and attraction. An interesting result of this was that when women were asked to name the ideal female “beauty”, they gave Cameron Diaz (presumably when she was younger). Men, on the other hand, listed Kate Upton. When men were asked to give the ideal male physique, they gave Hugh Jackman, while women listed Ryan Gosling.

What I found interesting about the choice of Diaz was the mention in the article of her “slim, boyish shape.” I’ve heard a few women I know, and attractive women at that, mention that they wish they were possessed of a thinner and taller profile or body shape. I am kind of curious why women would prefer this. While I have a few ideas of my own, I would like to hear what my readers think.

As for the men, I think I understand why men picked Hugh Jackman over Ryan Gosling. Since men are primarily driven by physical appearance, they selected a high-status man who seemed to best fit the peak masculine physical look. However, as the PSALM model points out, both Power and Status are of greater significance to a man’s sexual attractiveness than his Athleticism or Looks. Which makes me wonder if Gosling is considered higher Status right now. Or perhaps, if not necessarily purely higher status, if he is considerable more desirable by women right now. Which ties into my next point.

A Short-Cut To Status

Pre-selection is a feature of female behavior wherein women find men more attractive in relation to how many other women find that man attractive. The greater the number of women who seem to be attracted to a man, the more attractive he will tend to be in female eyes. This behavior is tied to Status  and is a “short-cut”, women use it to quickly and easily gauge a man’s position in the overall market.

It is a behavior that gets quite a lot of play in Game circles, as it can be truly potent in driving attraction. While I’m not really interested in their particular “trade”, the behavior has an impact in the Marriage Marketplace just as it does in the Sexual Marketplace. As more than a few Christians have attested to before in this particular section of the internet, if a man in church manages to “invoke” this female behavior it can almost completely shut out other men.

In his latest post Rollo quotes from an earlier piece by Heartiste explaining an “experiment” which relied on this phenomenon:

Basically, the guy had a few friends follow him around the mall, one guy filming him and the other two guys (I can’t tell if any of his hired guns were women) acting as his “groupies” or entourage. He goes around identifying himself as “Thomas Elliot” when people, mostly women, ask him his name. Eventually, he begins to pile up admiring and gawking female attention, which only snowballs into more female attention. Apparently, not one of these starstruck chicks thought to question if Thomas Elliot was a real celebrity. That’s the power of preselection and fame; so powerful, it can disengage a woman’s neural logic circuitry.

[For those who want the link to the original post, go to Rollo’s post- as a general rule I don’t linke to Heartiste.]

Rollo then comments on how pre-selection plays the dominant role in the insanity which we know as “teen idols”:

Preselection is a very powerful motivator of women’s hypergamous decision making process. Even the perception of fame (or even the potential for it) is a prime motivator and incentive to lock down a man who presents the hypergamous optimal ideal – a guy who satisfies the sexiness her Alpha F—s hypergamous needs require and the long term security of provisioning potential from status-confirmed Beta Bucks.

Whether this “famous” guy actually embodies this ideal is irrelevant to a woman’s Id-centric psyche. When women are younger, tweens and teens, this self-convincing is much easier since girls lack any real world experience to reference with respect to what the guy really represents. A capacity for abstract thinking is something that develops as we mature, but the desire to optimize hypergamy is a limbic, instinctual drive for girls and no amount of reasoning can compete with the fantasy of a pre-fabricated idealized Hypergamy.

They want to believe it.

[DG: I wonder if this might be the female counter-part to men pedestalizing women. Thoughts?]

Thus we have hordes of girls and young women willing to go to behavioral lengths they would never consider with the mundane men they’re familiar with in order to just brush with the possibility of  that hypergamous ideal. They will literally climb over one another to realize this.

The thing is, many older women can experience this behavior as well. They tend not to be as extreme about it, but I’ve seen it expressed before. SO it definitely seems to be an innate female behavior. Perhaps experience tempers it, as Rollo implies. Or maybe a woman’s drop in SMV, and her knowledge of his, makes her realize that she doesn’t have a real chance of pulling off this kind of “coup.”

Naturally, many Game practitioners and PUAs try to find ways to capitalize on pre-selection. I’ve heard of some hiring escorts to provide the appearance of female attention. Others will use female family members or co-workers for this purpose. It can be a huge card to play, and frankly any man looking to attract women should keep it in mind. If not for his own use, but to be wary of other men using it.

What I am curious about is how, or if, this could be ethically used by Christians within the confines of a church. Assuming that you cannot, or should not use it, what steps might be taken to counter-act its effects? Or is that even really possible? From what I’ve seen, the only thing that can surmount a man with pre-selection is another man with an even greater perception of pre-selection. I invite my readers to chime in with their thoughts on this subject, and all the others broached in this post.

 

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297 Comments

Filed under APE, Attraction, Femininity, LAMPS, Marriage Market Place, Masculinity, Men, Red Pill, Sex, Sexual Market Place, Women

297 responses to “Analyzing Attraction- Part 3

  1. Feminine But Not Feminist

    I agree with what Tru said about how it’s not so much about the status a man has compared to other men that is so important… it’s the status in comparison to us that makes the bigger statement. For example, I know a woman who, after completing a Doctorate degree earlier this year, decided that she would only (seriously) consider men who also had a Doctorate. Or me ~ I’m a high school graduate but not a college graduate. And I would likely not seriously consider men who didn’t graduate high school, and prefer that they be graduated from college (the level of education not mattering as much, as long as it’s more than what I have). By comparison, a man with a Doctorate compared to a man with an Associates degree won’t make as much of a difference (some difference if all other things are equal, but not nearly as much of a difference as comparing it to myself would be). I’m not saying that a man’s status compared to other men doesn’t matter at all ~ just that it doesn’t matter as much as his status to a woman does in terms of generating at least some attraction.

  2. Tru G*

    That’s two girls who think masculinity>hypergamy

    1/2 opinion + 1/2 opinion = 1 correct opinion 😀

  3. Mrs. C

    Tru, What if I agree with you both on this? How does that figure into your equation? 🙂

  4. This post is well past the point of my responding via comments. I will just have to make a part 4 to continue the discussion. Attraction floors and hypergamy will naturally be a subject of discussion. I may have a few other ideas as well.

  5. mdavid

    Reading this tread reminds me of the Roissy classic A woman with too much time on her hands is a force for destruction — to others as well as to herself.

    My point: most women don’t know their own mind regarding attraction. They merely create reasons to justify what they did (or wish to do). Like breathing or heartbeat, breeding is too important to be left entirely to the human frontal lobe. Granted, breeding and attraction are different things, but they are closely related. Women are driven by forces they cannot articulate nor even understand. Men, not so much, because each sex act is not as critical for them (“more” is generally better from a genetic POV).

    So to amuse myself, I asked msmdavid. She said about 50/50 (individual/group). Of course, as per above, she’s just making s**t up.

    To continue Roissy’s classic …easy life mooching…delaying childbirth…Idleness corrupts woman, much like power corrupts man. Keeping a woman barefoot and pregnant is probably the best thing for her sanity.

    I’ve observed this. Children do all sorts of things to attraction perceptions of women. It’s only in modern times that most women have few children, and this is really messing with the attraction matrix. It’s like women have gone collectively crazy and have no idea why, and this has spilled into attraction schizophrenia.

  6. Feminine But Not Feminist

    @ mdavid

    Just because we women don’t always agree with everything the men around here say about female attraction towards men doesn’t mean we don’t know what’s going on in our own heads. You even said yourself in a comment to me earlier in this thread that I should tell you why women do something when I asked why you men think women do it.

  7. mdavid

    FBNF, Just because we women don’t always agree with everything the men around here say about female attraction towards men doesn’t mean we don’t know what’s going on in our own heads.

    Hell, I’m saying even if a woman agrees with men they still don’t know what’s going on in their own heads. So relax; I’ve insulted (or complimented, YMMV) every woman, everywhere, so don’t take it personal. 🙂

  8. Elspeth

    I disagree with you mdavid. I think women are perfectly capable of knowing their own minds. Intellectual honesty is where the chasm is- usually.

    For example, for the longest time I pretended that I knew my husband would turn out to be an outstanding husband and father. In retrospect, all the signs were that I could have seen that if I were actually looking for it, but I wasn’t.

    Everything about him just screamed “trouble!” And I was just as irrational as can be while pretending (after the fact) that there was a method to what was truly madness.

    But for the woman looking intently for a good husband and having put the amount of thought into it that these girls clearly have, they can be very sound, resolute, and aware of what they are attracted to, why they are, and how to avoid pitfalls.

    In reality, they have to be because a lot of parents- even good Christian parents- are pretty hands off when it comes to this sort of thing. They leave their kids to it.

    There is just something inherently wrong with assuming a woman is incapable of understanding what she thinks and feels.

  9. This latest round of comments should make for another good subject on my next post.

  10. Turningstar has gone off the rails @ Rollo’s place confirming why I haven’t taken her serious

  11. Hank Flanders

    Turningstar has gone off the rails @ Rollo’s place confirming why I haven’t taken her serious

    Did some of the posts get deleted? The first one I see came from Miss Tea on 12/23/14 at 12:25 AM under the entry “Domain Dependence.” I don’t what see what looks like another post from the same person again until 4:09 PM by Some Body.

  12. Hank Flanders

    And some of the ones by Another Name quoted by others as occurring at 5:11 and 5:34 pm appear to be gone, too. I guess I don’t get to keep up with the latest happenings. Oh, well.

  13. Yea Rollo removed some of her posts which I don’t recall him doing before but you didn’t miss much, logic etc just some chick melting down because no one thinks she is special etc.

  14. Mrs. C

    Much of the manosphere seems to be men melting down because no one thinks they’re special. pot/kettle/black

  15. Mrs C nice attempt at reframing things; won’t work. For the pot/kettle/ black thing to work it would have to be me melting down. And not to mention her doing what she “accused” me of doing. Projection is always in play

  16. mdavid

    Here’s a quote* involving female attraction. True story; a woman describes her “date” with her boss:

    We spent almost two more hours talking in the coffee shop, and I delighted in every minute of it. It wasn’t anything in particular that he said; rather, it was that ease with which he moved, and the force with which he conveyed his ideas. Whether it was announcing why the last version of the product sucked or detailing how he was learning the Java programming language to be more conversant with the tech team, every sentence he spoke burst forth like a proclamation. He kept asking questions about me, but each time I deflected the conversation back to him, just because I enjoyed watching him. Joe Fulwiler moved through the world as if he owned it. He knew what he wanted out of life, and anyone who had even a moment’s interaction with him knew that nothing would stop him from getting it.

    *Fulwiler, Jennifer, Something Other Than God, p 33.

  17. Hank Flanders

    Yea Rollo removed some of her posts which I don’t recall him doing before but you didn’t miss much, logic etc just some chick melting down because no one thinks she is special etc.

    Well, I just hope that person holds to his or her faith. Someone had quoted one of the deleted posts from someone named Hedda in which that commenter had stated something about just using God / church (“the way other people do”), but I would encourage Hedda to not give up on God for sure or on finding a significant other. The first century Christians, as well as Christians in other parts of the world today have gone through things a hundred times worse than what we have or likely ever will and gave praises to God while doing so. Surely, we can keep God a priority and handle being single for a while, right?

    I was just sitting there yesterday with my family at Christmas and thinking about how even though I’m single and don’t have a wife or girlfriend with whom to celebrate, I’m blessed to have family get-togethers to go to at all. Not everyone has that, and just because others in the world have it worse, that doesn’t make our problems unimportant, but maybe it can help us to remain more content in the meantime.

  18. Just a reminder that if anyone wants to reach me, my e-mail is found in the About page of this blog.

  19. Mrs. C

    @sfcton – Your little move of running from one blog to another to point out someone who is obviously struggling with and bitter about many things, when I see men often frustrated and railing as well, was childish. It was gossipy and pot stirring.

    Thank goodness there seems to be a better caliber of men here who have reacted with concern rather than idle curiosity to see a “melting down female” that they can “stone” just because she has strong feelings about her situation.

  20. LOL try another shaming attack dearie.

    You are attempting to defend the indefensible and I am merely pointing out I was right to distrust her input and she did what she accused me of. Those are ligit learning points for men.

  21. Mrs. C

    You can laugh your fool head off all you want but calling it like I see it is hardly an empty shaming attack, dearie. I’m under no illusions that you would feel shame about much of anything.

    What is the indefensible that I’m defending? She asked you an honest question about why you bother posting on a Christian site when you aren’t one and instead are criticizing the input of women that DG has welcomed. Her questioning her own faith now has no bearing on the question she asked you.

    Her unchristian-like cursing and the like may not be a good way of expressing her views but I see it stemming from a person who is having a crisis of faith, disillusionment in a Christan walk that has brought pain instead of desired blessings and, IMO, too much reading of some of the more vile Red Pill half-truths that lead to confusion rather than enlightenment for the Christian. It’s not unusual for those who attempt to walk the straight and narrow by rejecting societal norms to have a trial that shakes their faith to the core and makes them bitterly question everything. The railing and ranting stems from pain. It’s not always pretty. I pray she she comes through this with her faith intact.

  22. Hank Flanders

    Mrs. C

    I pray she she comes through this with her faith intact.

    Agreed.

  23. fringed

    Mrs. C:

    I like you and respect you. I wish I had a few of you to be in the frequent company of me and my son.

    Trugingstar is a very troubled lady. We are all broken and sinful fallen individuals. Additionally, we are very loved by our Creator. I hope to Christ that Trugingstar remains steadfast in her faith of Christ.

  24. Mrs. C

    @fringed – That was kind of you to say. I’m sure I have many faults though, that would make you change your mind.

    I just can’t stand to see someone being kicked when they are down. I don’t think it’s funny and I don’t think they should be pointed out for ridicule. I like her. She’s very different from me but I enjoyed reading her comments whether or not I agreed with the content or delivery.

  25. happyhen11

    “I just can’t stand to see someone being kicked when they are down. ”

    Yes. And this time of year is especially hard on the emotionally scarred and lonely. I am sorry to hear she is in crisis. I will say a prayer for her.

  26. Tru

    I really appreciate how many of you are determined to see the best in me. Rest assured, I am not an unusually troubled or scarred person. Sometimes, there’s the slow ebb of things going badly, and then on top of that, there are other surprise things that go very badly. You get enough surprises, and gets to be a lot. You get exhausted.

    I’m doing my best to clean up whatever’s inaccurate or unnecessarily upsetting that I’ve said about people. I hope any of that will be forgotten, and that people will just move along.

  27. I am laughing because you are doing such an excellent job showing the inherent nature of women for me, you are following the chick script to the “T”and you think your words matter to me

    Who says I am not a Christain? Two women? Why is she trying to derail a secular blog? Her question was projection not an honest question.

    Women love to kick men when they are down, news c’s comment about the man o sphere and men melting down proves that point. There was no compassion in her statement just a tit for tat type of revenge on some other woman’s behalf.

  28. Mrs. C

    Everything isn’t always about “team man” or “team woman”. Sometimes it’s just about right or wrong. I know my words don’t matter to you nor do I care. I was hoping they did matter to Tru, whose behavior I’m not condoning, but seems to indicate someone who is having a really hard time.

    Who says you’re not a Christian? Your own words would imply that you are not. “The gift that keeps on giving on why Christian are to be avoided.”

    I didn’t kick anyone when they were down. My observation was that it was odd for you to drag out “a melting down chick” and call everyone to come see her struggle with her issues when much of the manosphere is about the same thing. (Disillusionment about the dating scene and the relationships between men and women)
    You’re following the “bad boy” alpha script to a “t”. Good for you.

    I’m not getting into a drawn-out war of words. I think you were wrong. You think I’m wrong. It’s pointless to continue.

  29. Feminine But Not Feminist

    @ sfcton

    Please just drop it already ~ you’re just being a pain in the rear-end at this point rather than proving any points about the nature of women. Plus you’re gossiping about a situation that you know very little about. (I can say that confidently because I do happen to know what’s going on, but you don’t need to know the details of it so don’t bother asking). Just leave her and it alone.

  30. mdavid

    I’ve read this attraction thread with interest. At nearly 300 fairly non-moderated comments, it’s a poor-man’s Rorschach test to see what commentators are really like. It’s so easy to assume the worst in others, and lash out to reenact justice (as one sees it) so a person’s bias is on full display. So the whole discussion is fascinating.

    My personal bias (as I see it, I try to be fair) toward the attraction matrix is that the female imperative is now so engrained in Western culture (due to peace and prosperity) that women no longer recognize how gender differences, by definition, must remain useful for both the sexes. Today, it’s all for women, all the time, to the point where even sin is no longer recognized as an equal opportunity thing. Man bad; no mercy. Woman good; mercy and forgiveness is a right.

    Because of this constant meme, I generally just assume any woman acting badly really is bad deep down, and any man acting badly is probably just an abused soul reacting to the injustice of it all. Stereotyping for sure, but statistically valid.

    My interest, and why I frequent these discussions, is an attempt to get out of my comfort zone and stay connected to the younger manosphere set. I think it helps to keep abreast of the likely coming backlash against women (and older people shamelessly perpetuating Team Woman). It will probably make the Muslim approach to handling women’s poor behavior look like child’s play, and open season on boomers is probably in the wind as well. While I dread this probable backlash (for my daughters especially) I also fear it not coming even more, because the tension is high and something will give…and the longer justice takes, the more it will look like Ferguson, where so many young men have nothing to lose and just want to see it all burn. Anyway, I’m pretty personally detached (I probably wouldn’t even engage were I childless), so that’s my bias.

  31. Tru

    If anyone would like to use me as a sample in their notable scientific research, our host has already kindly offered to provide your laboratory with intrinsic information, regarding the actual reason for this outburst, via email. May your speculations be ground-breaking, award-winning, productive little buggers. And may you forever remain sinless and upstanding gentlefolk.

  32. With women it is always Team Women, never right vs wrong. I am not the fool you think I am. Woman almost always claim the truth about women are vile half truths etc. Reckon I would do the same if I played for team woman. You don’t get to determine useful learning points for men. Or anything else for men. It is not any woman’s place in this world for her to do so.

    Being a Christian is based on faith in Christ as the Son of God who’s death pays for our sins and not based on a negative view of Christian women. A well deserved and very logical negative view. Once again you are playing for team woman.

    I am not carrying tales I am pointing out facts. Facts which make a woman look bad does not becomd gossip on your say so.

    FBNF you know me better then that. The young woman in question attacked me here, I pointed out where my suspicion was justified and confirmed. Then Team Woman jumped in with the predictable game plan to keep things going. It would never have been mentioned again if mrs c didn’t jump in to defend Team Woman.

  33. With women it is always Team Women, never right vs wrong. I am not the fool you think I am. Woman almost always claim the truth about women are vile half truths etc. Reckon I would do the same if I played for team woman. You don’t get to determine useful learning points for men. Or anything else for men. It is not any woman’s place in this world for her to do so.

    Being a Christian is based on faith in Christ as the Son of God who’s death pays for our sins and not based on a negative view of Christian women. A well deserved and very logical negative view. Once again you are playing for team woman.

    I am not carrying tales I am pointing out facts. Facts which make a woman look bad does not becomd gossip on your say so.

    FBNF you know me better then that. The young woman in question attacked me here, I pointed out where my suspicion was justified and confirmed. Then Team Woman jumped in with the predictable game plan to keep things going. It would never have been mentioned again if mrs c didn’t jump in to defend Team Woman.

  34. fringed

    Ton, or sfcton as you call yourself now,

    I’ve been reading the manosphere for over two years now. You have repeatedly indicated both directly and indirectly that you are not a Christian and have repeatedly put Christianity down. Your incongruities depict exactly what you criticize women for. You are a head-game player and a cruel person. GROW THE FUCK UP!

    Tru,

    I don’t know the specifics, but I’ve been through quite a bit during my 50 years. My son has special needs and I am mostly helpless to fix him. I gave up on church attendance due to the moral superiority that I experienced there. I just worship Christ on my own and hope for continued grace and forgiveness.

  35. Ton,
    As the manly man you tout yourself as being why do you let a young strange woman online rattle you so? Just seems inconsistent. Don’t you have 3 other real women in you life that would be a better use of your time.

    Fringe,
    “I gave up on church attendance due to the moral superiority that I experienced there.”

    Tell me about it. Plenty of that online too.

  36. fringed

    mdavid:

    “My personal bias (as I see it, I try to be fair) toward the attraction matrix is that the female imperative is now so engrained in Western culture (due to peace and prosperity) that women no longer recognize how gender differences, by definition, must remain useful for both the sexes. Today, it’s all for women, all the time, to the point where even sin is no longer recognized as an equal opportunity thing. Man bad; no mercy. Woman good; mercy and forgiveness is a right.”

    I totally agree, although I slip into White Knighting when I believe it to be the right thing to do.

    “Because of this constant meme, I generally just assume any woman acting badly really is bad deep down, and any man acting badly is probably just an abused soul reacting to the injustice of it all. Stereotyping for sure, but statistically valid.”

    I agree, but also am cognizant of the fact that men are truly wrong at times as well. The overriding issue is that in our culture men are always wrong and women are always right.

    “Anyway, I’m pretty personally detached (I probably wouldn’t even engage were I childless), so that’s my bias.”

    If I didn’t have a son I would be a true MGTOW. Due to having a child I have to participate in society. I believe the FI will only get stronger. There is no turning back unless there is a nuclear war or a very large scale natural disaster that would result in the need for women to be protected by men again. Otherwise women will continue to seize more control and men will just more and more turn to a life of masturbation.

  37. Feminine But Not Feminist

    @ sfcton

    This isn’t about Team Woman for me. My jumping to Tru’s defense here is a token of appreciation for an unexpected comment she made to me elsewhere last night. I know what it’s like to have someone talk about you publicly in unnecessary ways, and it’s not exactly pleasant. So I decided to inject a request for you to stop doing so to her.

    I am not carrying tales I am pointing out facts. Facts which make a woman look bad does not becomd gossip on your say so.

    No, but publicly “pointing out facts” that make anyone (man or woman) “look bad” just for the sake of making them look bad IS gossip. Your bringing her up had no purpose of resolving anything, so it was pointless and unnecessary for you to do so. It doesn’t matter if what you said is true or not as to whether it was gossip or not.

  38. Feminine But Not Feminist

    And my defending her from you is not an approval of her recent behavior. Has she done wrong lately? Yes she has, more than you realize. But the difference is, she recognizes it now and is trying to make it right. That is good enough reason for me. The fact that she is a woman is irrelevant, so enough with that Team Woman stuff – I nearly jumped down her throat in defense of a man she commented about recently, and only didn’t because the blog went into moderation just minutes before.

  39. I think that this thread has gone off-topic enough. So I’m going to ask any further responses here to stick to the original post or corresponding points. If further comments should continue to stray, I’m afraid that I shall have to delete them.

  40. Tru

    I’m sure DG is going to delete this, but here’s what I have to say:

    I don’t feel bad about what points I addressed about DS. I’ve already tried emailing him several times and resolving it privately and it didn’t work; even though the conflicts were resolved, the roots of them were not. For one thing, he did a very good job of covering-up the fact that he was borderline Catholic. There wasn’t a hint of it.

    If you’re going to Evangelize to someone, please tell them your religion. Don’t indicate that you’re something else.

    This was one of many problems. I took a lot of care communicating with him very openly. I didn’t really get the same treatment in return. The only reason that I initially kept communicating with him was his unusual testimony: our personalities weren’t very agreeable to one another. It’s complicated; after a while, I think he was trying to be helpful most of the time, but it was probably out of his league to take that on. I can understand that, that’s fine: who hasn’t been in over their heads before? It’s one thing to have your own personal issues and to be honest about them. It’s an understandable mistake to drop a few balls while juggling too many. It’s another thing to be totally deceptive.

    Many people swear by no conflict ever. That’s ridiculous. Many people would think it insane to confront other people publicly. That sounds like a great philosophy, but is unrealistic. I don’t feel bad about public confrontation. However, there’s a right and a wrong way to do it. I feel bad that I could not stick strictly to the points and that much of it was carried-out improperly. I don’t advise engaging risky, seldom-employed social maneuvers while upset. It’s playing with fire.

    I probably based too much of my own beliefs on the assumption that this person was being straightforward with me. Naturally, I have a lot to doubt.
    I’m back at square one, and my own beliefs are something that I’ll have to sort out on my own.

  41. Tru

    I like the idea of presenting things publicly, rather than talking behind someone’s back about them. Even though I feel strongly about this situation, I prefer everything to be on the table. It’s kind of a gray area, but my personal belief is that it’s worse to talk to people privately about situations like this, because there’s no gossip ceiling. This way, it’s fair: anyone can see what’s being said about them and can defend themselves. People know what’s going on. Likewise, there’s a beginning and an end much more quickly.

  42. Nice attempt at some feminists shaming tactics fringe.

    Team Woman and the feminine imperative in action.

    There is nothing to resolve but there is something to point out about how women operate. For those who want to see that is.

  43. Le Sigh.

    Since it seems that people cannot let this go, I think I’ll create an end of the year off-topic post. People can have at it over there. I’ll allow these comments to stand for a day, so folks have a chance to save them and copy them over to the new thread.

  44. Pingback: Analyzing Attraction- Part 4 | Donal Graeme

  45. SapphireYagami

    i cant stand the notebook nor any of that authors books they are so depressing

  46. SapphireYagami

    you can say the same for Twilight with the team edward vs team jacob thing. like a lot of girls took that very seriously

  47. SapphireYagami

    ryan is a meh to me and hugh is okay. i prefer chris evans (captain america), chris hemsworth (thor) and chadwick boseman(black panther)

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