Power And Control

Zippy has a new post up which demands a follow-up: With great power comes great incontinence. Short and to the point, I am tempted to repeat all of it. Instead I will merely quote what I see as the key parts. They are:


  • The most primal power of men is violence

  • The most primal power of women is sex

  • [O]ur society is willing to punish crimes of violence but is not willing to punish crimes of sex

I think it should be readily apparent to all my readers, but I will repeat it all the same-

Society and Civilization can only exist when there are structures in place which control the base, primal natures of human beings. Failure to control that primal nature leads to savagery in the end, and that means chaos. Towards that end, the building and the maintenance of civilization requires that the primal nature of both men and women alike must be strictly controlled and regulated.

For men our most primal power is violence. Thus, to control our primal nature requires the strict regulation of male violent tendencies. Fail to do so, and you have disorder.

For women, their most primal power is sex. Thus, to control their primal nature requires the strict regulation of female sexual tendencies. Fail to do so, and you have disorder.

The problem right now is what Zippy notes- we regulate violence extensively, but not sexuality. The result is that women are now the primary source of disorder in the “Civilized West.” This will not change until sexuality is regulated with the same fierceness as violence is.

Unfortunately, what we see now is that efforts are being made to double down on the regulation of the male capacity for violence. And further efforts are being made to double down on the deregulation of female sexual tendencies. Rollo has a new post  where this is discussed in the context of The War on Paternity. While most previous efforts to ensure paternity in the past have been dismantled, new technology has changed the field. DNA testing means that a man really can be certain, for the first time in history, that a child is truly his. That naturally conflicts with female sexual power. Thus, it has to go. Hence we are seeing increased efforts to limit when paternity testing can take place, and when it can be used to change a man’s situation (legally, at least).

I have some more thoughts I may add to this post as I develop them. In the meantime feel free to comment below.


Filed under Blue Pill, Civilization, Femininity, Masculinity, Men, Moral Agency, Red Pill, Sex, Sin, State of Nature, Women

14 responses to “Power And Control

  1. Novaseeker

    In general I agree in that I have often viewed our current situation as one in which one sex has been given the freedom to exercise its trump card (sex), while the other has been almost fully restricted from using its trump card (violent strength).

    However, having said that, I think that it is relatively easy to see why this is not controversial to most people, even on a visceral level. It has to do with the visibility and immediacy of the harms, as perceived by almost everyone. The harms of the abuse of physical power which manifests as violence are almost immediate, are obvious, and are universally disliked apart from certain sanctioned contexts like wars, law enforcement, and certain competitive sports. The harm is easy to see, very proximate to the violent act, and is perceived negatively by almost everyone. Because of that, it’s easy to understand, I think, why violence is severely regulated, and most *men* agree with this as well, again in *most* contexts.

    The abuse of sexual power which manifests as promiscuity, casual sex, unchastity and so on is a different case in that the harms which arise from it are less obvious to most people, less proximate to the act, and seen by mans as being avoidable. That is, while people may agree that getting knocked up at 17 is a bad idea and leads to bad outcomes (for the woman, the baby and society in general), this result is seen as avoidable using tools like contraception and abortion — which is pretty much what the upper middle does in avoiding that happening while continuing to participate in the sex party during the 20s. To the extent that there are psycho-emotional impacts from this behavior which are negative for any given individual, these are less obvious, often deliberately hidden, and not immediate or proximate to the acts involved — and so far fewer people link together the harms (to the extent that they even agree they exist) to the actions than in the case of violence and its aftermath — which makes regulating the acts in a way similar to that of violence difficult to imagine for most people. It just “isn’t the same kind of thing” in the eyes of most people because the harms are not that obvious, the worst of them seem avoidable without regulating the act, and a good number of the kind of people who would be in position to model such self-regulation are themselves engaging in the same actions with, in their minds, no ill effects at all. All of that is very different from the situation involving violence, because people clearly see the link between the act and very negative outcomes in the case of violence, which they do not see in the case of abuse of sexual power.

    Of course it’s also true that pushing certain ideologies like anti-patriarchy and so on that feminism has been doing for a century or so has made it even harder to enforce any kind of sexual mores against women’s abuse of their sexual power. But I think they had an easier time convincing people of this because the harms take longer to see than in the case of violence, and are therefore easier to decouple in people’s minds.

  2. Kate

    Females who get away with their sexual crimes on this earth will not be immune forever. Better to be “caught” in any crime and atone for it before death than die with one’s soul in such a terrible state and have to serve one’s time in the afterlife.

  3. Novaseeker

    Another thought struck me while perusing this recent “gem” of an article at CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/21/opinions/what-men-can-do-me-too-stamp-opinion/index.html

    Lots of nonsense in there, really, basically requiring men to be radical feminists in order to be considered “decent” (nothing new there from the revolutionary crowd, but the Weinstein thing is being used as a stalking horse in a rather loud way, it seems to me), but what struck me was the inclusion of enthusiastic consent in the list.

    The enthusiastic consent standard is another way that women’s sexual power is augmented at the expense of most men. We can be ensured that if a man is actual in a sexual encounter he is typically quite enthusiastic about it (leaving aside marital sex — there are probably quite a few cases there where the H is less than enthusiastic about sex with his wife for a variety of reasons, if she tries to initiate), so basically this is a one-way test of the women’s enthusiasm, whereby if she isn’t obviously enthusiastic about the sex, it’s rape, even if she consents to the sex. The one-sidedness isn’t terribly troubling, I think (the current consent standard is also more or less one sided in examining the women’s consent while male consent is taken as a given whenever there is an erection), but what is troubling is that this new standard which is being pushed basically has the effect of rendering virtually all sex that women have other than passionate sex with apex men as rape. That is, because a woman may consent to have sex with Billy Beta doesn’t mean she wasn’t raped by Billy if her consent wasn’t enthusiastic, like it is/was with “Chad”. In effect, this new standard criminalizes most heterosexual intercourse between women and non-apex men, because such men are not capable of generating *enthusiastic* consent — at least not regularly or on an ongoing basis.

    This has the effect of significantly increasing women’s sexual power (which is the power to attract and to sift/sort/reject due to imbalances in demand between the sexes) by essentially empowering women to criminalize situations where she consents to sex but her partner isn’t able to generate sufficient enthusiasm on her part, which permits her to later charge him with rape. I fully expect this standard to spread from colleges (where it is having the desired impact already more or less, in terms of confining sex to apex males) to the broader society, and that it will be used, as it is being used in college, to empower women to even further control and restrict the expression of heterosexual male sexuality while augmenting further their power to sort/sift/reject by making it a crime for her lovers to be unable to generate her enthusiasm to the same degree.

  4. fuzziewuzziebear

    Nova, If things unfold as you foresee, a reaction from men will be not long in coming.
    That brings me to what men are likely to do that hasn’t been mentioned. They will not react with violence but with withdrawl.

  5. stmichaelkozaki

    N: …significantly increasing women’s sexual power (which is the power to attract and to sift/sort/reject due to imbalances in demand between the sexes) by essentially empowering women to criminalize situations

    I’m not in the dating game anymore, but I have sons who are and my observation? “Thirst” has now flipped to the female side in pursuit of the top 1/3 men (down from the standard top 1/5) because so many men have been run out of the SMP & laugh at the MMP. As fuzz says: they will not react with violence but with withdrawal. I think that’s already there. Sure, there are always plenty of stupid men who play with women indiscriminately. But women don’t want loser men. They want quality men, who are going celibate, scoffing at chivalry, and looking out for #1 after the shellacking their fathers/friends have received by marriage/society today.

    Women are the big losers here. Classic Tragedy of the Commons. Men who are still men (i.e. confident and physically fit) are like catnip to women anymore. This social change isn’t a crisis for “aware” men; it’s an opportunity. For women? It’s a crisis.

  6. Lost Patrol

    There are a lot of moving parts in this machine and I can’t figure it out.

    The main crisis for women is that most men will continue to be ordinary, and “unaware”, and thus fall into the category she has no interest in; to include whether or not they withdraw. The more of those that withdraw the less she has to fend off. It only becomes an issue after prolonged failure to secure a male from the upper echelons of desirability causes her to have to settle for an ordinary steady eddy. At that point she needs them to stop withdrawing and accept their appointed station in life, but if they’ve truly checked off the net…

    Meanwhile for the upper echelon, or desirable player types, the stakes are raised. An undesirable man is a sexual harasser whereas a desirable man gets sexual access and her consent, but he may be just as vulnerable. A woman is at leisure to claim rape following even consensual sex, and maybe even much, much later; possibly even following other sexual encounters with other men in the interim. If the bar is raised from consent to something having to do with her level of enthusiasm or satisfaction with the act…

  7. stmichaelkozaki

    Lost Patrol: I don’t think it’s so linear. Most women worth a ring are not wackos. A false rape claim is a big deal, a crime, and most women would be terrified to do so unless the stakes were very high, and 90% would crack under interrogation & know it.

    What’s happening: folk are separating into different social classes. Women and men from the “upper class” are pulling away from the lower class and they don’t mix much anymore. Most of the ugly stuff is found in the lower classes. And the grey areas between the classes are fraught with tension for women who have limited time to lock in a quality husband who are rarer by the day. Women simply don’t offer much in the way of family anymore and quality men respond by boycotting children. Not marriage so much, because women have jobs now and often are at as much risk as men in divorce if kids are not present. At least that’s how I see it, and the fertility rates seem to reflect this.

  8. Novaseeker

    MK —

    You always have zero zilch nada empathy or sympathy for men who are not “aware” in your words, or who don’t meet your standard which basically equals being apex men (yes, I know you say that is a low bar now, so I get that, and a response to this to that effect is therefore inapposite).

    Honestly you add nothing to these discussions for the most part. It is unfortunate that you are here.

  9. stmichaelkozaki

    Nova, sorry you feel that way but really don’t care since we obviously disagree. Where I do agree with you: for men who have “tossed in the towel” so to speak, or who are looking for empathy, I do indeed have nothing to offer. And if I thought that’s all who were here I’d be gone. I’m a realist, not a therapist. And the real world is extremely harsh for men; 1950’s America is a rare occurrence in human history yet everyone thinks it’s their birthright). But that’s not whom I’m commenting for here.

    I comment for the sake of men who 1) have a hard time understanding the reality of things (in my view), and 2) those who wish to take action to deal with it, not just shake their fist or head at the world. This doesn’t mean I think one has to leave the “loser” class to live well and enjoy life (it’s actually not a bad life sans women). What makes it a bad life in my view is not acknowledging the social reality so bumping one’s head against a concrete wall wondering why it won’t break. That was my experience and I would save anyone else that pain if I can.

  10. MG

    “The most primal power of men is violence”
    “The most primal power of women is sex”
    The topic of power is hot right now!
    This might be a tangent with respect to your main point on regulations, and maybe I am trivializing as well, but I believe these definitions of power, although true, are rather simplistic and biased. I suggest they should be changed to read,
    “Women think the most primal power of men is violence”
    “Men think the most primal power of women is sex”
    Let me briefly explain.
    Women, who crave security, are fearful of the abuse of men’s power through violence.
    Men, who crave sexual expression, are fearful of the abuse of women’s power through rejection.
    As such, the original quote defines power as the ability to withhold what the other needs, thereby allowing the provider to gain dominance in the transaction, and to generate a corresponding fear in the beneficiary.
    True, but a more expansive and complete understanding of power must recognize that the locus of power is not in the characteristics themselves, i.e. violence or sex. Instead, power lies in the fact that each party has the ability to either grant the needs of the other, or else deprive them of the same. These needs are not limited to security and sex, but also include a myriad of other life-giving aspects of our respective natures, such as honor, loyalty, love and respect.
    I postulate that true power is in the giving of life, and less so in the disruption of it. When that doesn’t happen, it is due to a failure or irresponsibility on behalf of the provider, or else done as an act of operant conditioning, negative punishment in this case, to the receiver.

  11. Pingback: Male and Female Power Deconstructed | Modern Grit

  12. Donal, this is really good. It’s obviously up to you, but you may want to make these points at some blog like Dreher’s, thus espousing them in your very articulate way to another audience. To be sure, trolls would come out, but at least people would have to hear your argument and confront it.

    With all respect Novoseeker, MK is just trying to realistically light some candles in a harsh world, whereas it seems that you and most of your Christian Manosphere brethren simply want to endlessly curse the darkness.

  13. Jason

    Sorry, Novaseeker not Novo.

  14. Pingback: Male and Female Power Deconstructed | Σ Frame

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