Market Analysis: A Lack Of Confidence

My Market Analysis series continues. Today I want to examine, to some degree, a point I made in Market Watch:

Young men are much less interested in marriage than they were in the past. Having a few more years under my belt since I started blogging, I have seen this more and more. Younger men are just less interested in marriage. The why of this is worthy of a whole post of its own.

I have been thinking over this point for some time, because I knew something was going on, but wasn’t sure what. I am still not certain I have it nailed down, but I will try and address it all the same. [Perhaps this discussion will help fix that.]

While I was thinking this over, it appears that Seriously Please Drop It was on the same wavelength as me. His recent post, Our Fates Are Bound- And Some Good News covered much of what I intended to discuss. So I will quote a great deal from his post. I will start with his second point, because it ties directly to my original observation:

To put it another way: young men have generally ceased to believe what Concept 1 says it is very important that they believe: that they stand a reasonable chance of marrying well.  In response, they work less hard to be eligible husbands.

The standard conservative response has been: No problem, we’ll just lie to them.  Or yell at them.  And that actually worked for a surprisingly long time, but as Dalrock details, that train is running out of steam.

I believe that young men are much less inclined to marry these days in large part because they cannot marry well. Simple cost-benefit analysis, really. The stock isn’t worth the price, and so they won’t play the market, if you will.

Furthermore, I believe this is most pronounced among young men who are devout Christians. Now, among the general population there isn’t a marriage strike going on. [n fact a secular acquaintance of mine got married to his long time GF recently. So secular guys still are interested in marrying.] All the same, I think a drop off is happening. However, it is happening the most among the most devout men.

The reason for this? Well, I don’t think it is just one reason.  I suspect a couple are at play. Some possibilities:

  • Devout Christian men are much more “picky” when it comes to a mate. They are screening for a variety of personality and character traits that are in short supply. If they are convinced that such options aren’t available, they may just give up and opt out of the market.
  • Devout Christian men are presumably more likely to take marriage and marriage vows more seriously.  Looking around, they can see that few do. With that kind of observation comes a natural disinclination to take part in something they perceive as likely to end poorly.
  • Female behavior has become increasingly more egregious. Devout Christian men are the most likely to notice this, and to use this to come to a general determination that women simply aren’t worth it these days.

I am sure there are others, and I invite my readers to supply their own thoughts.

Taken together, all of these are indicators that young men are not confident with the market. They see volatility and watered stocks everywhere. In such circumstances, it makes sense to not want to play the market at all. Which brings us to the next point:

Concept 1:  Marriage requires pre-marital cooperation, and therefore intersexual societal trust

Good grooms and brides do not simply appear from the ether.  Eligibility requires work and self-denial from both sexes, for many years before marriage.

Much of the motivation for this work and self-denial comes from the carrot of marriage.  But for this to work, young people must believe that somewhere in the world, their opposite number is doing the same thing.

The Market relies on both men and women to act appropriately. If one sex misbehaves, then the whole market will start to fall apart. Cooperation is key. As a lawyer once explained to me: “the most basic underlying assumption of contract law is that everyone is operating under good faith. If you take away good faith, you don’t have a contract.” What we have right now is a system where at least one side is perceived as acting in bad faith (if not actually doing so in large part).

Dropit sort of sums everything up in this:

What we are hitting upon here is the importance of morale.  We could aptly describe current failures in the marriage market as a cyclical “Morale Crisis.”  We should start talking about this!

He uses the word morale, and it works. Morale is certainly low. However, I think the underlying basis for that low morale is a lack of confidence or trust in the market. People are convinced that the players in the market are not acting in good faith. Let’s examine in further detail this tidy little bit of wisdom:

“Why prepare for marriage? Guys will always be available”

leads to

“Why prepare for marriage?  There are no girls available”

leads to

“Why prepare for marriage?  There are no guys available.”

Examining it in detail, you can see where bad faith leads us towards. Point 1 is all about women acting in bad faith. The realization of this leads men to stop bothering becoming marriageable, because it is clear to them that women aren’t to be trusted. In turn this leads those women who don’t engage in Point 1 thinking to be convinced that men aren’t serious about marriage, and they in turn throw their hands in the air. It is a vicious cycle with no end-point but an utter lack of trust in the opposite sex and in the institution of marriage.

My attempt at a brief summation: Young men, especially devout Christian men, are not inclined towards marriage because they have come to believe they cannot trust their female counterparts. In turn many of the remaining decent women are also coming to believe they cannot trust the men, either. We cannot begin to fix the marriage market, especially among devout Christians, until we fix the trust issues that exist between men and women.

I am going to hold off on further commentary for the moment. In the meantime I hope my readers will chime in and offer their thoughts.

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118 Comments

Filed under Blue Pill, Christianity, Churchianity, Civilization, Courtship, Marriage, Marriage Market Place, Men, Red Pill

118 responses to “Market Analysis: A Lack Of Confidence

  1. No I’m not. You’re saying men and women should marry people they’re not sexually attracted to. I think that’s a bad idea.

    If you’re saying that men and women should marry people where there’s a little bit of attraction with the intent that it germinate and grow, fine. Then say that. I actually kind of agree that that can work out, as long as both are being obedient to God and understand what they’re getting into and what is expected of them as husbands and wives. But as usual, you prefer to put it in cryptic terms and not explicit terms.

  2. Again, Zippy, go lecture the women about this. The sexual attraction problem is a woman problem, not a man problem.

  3. thedeti:

    You’re saying men and women should marry people they’re not sexually attracted to.

    Those are your words, not mine.

    Shadow boxing.

  4. You said sexual attraction should develop only within marriage. The clear import of that statement is that it should be nonexistent prior to marriage.

    Or, if you’re saying that there should be some there before marriage, fine. Then make that position explicit.

    Tell the women this, not the men. Women are the ones who have this problem, not men.

  5. You get the last word, Zippy. Fire away.

  6. Shaun

    The whole principle of placing confidence in the market – is misplaced. From a Christian perspective where are peoples confidence or faith in Christ to bring them a good woman? God is sovereign – he sets the rules, and has determined the outcome. But I am not an Armenian Christian.

  7. Crossphased

    One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned yet is the fact that we are entering a post Christian period.

    One reason for that (in my opinion), is the absolute lack of meaningful guidance from the church on the area of intersexual relations.

    Don’t get me wrong. There was no lack of “don’t look at porn, don’t ogle the women, don’t masturbate, don’t watch movies that show any skin or kissing.”

    But when it comes to teaching young men who grew up in a feminised culture how to properly and successfully “court” there was nothing. There was crap like “I kissed dating goodbye” but there was no guidance, just a litany of what not to do.

    Indirectly, the failure of the church-going men of the previous generation to help the young men has led to the rise of what they hate: the manosphere, as young men including Christian men went to find answers for themselves.

    The fact that much of the church still refuses to deal with reality on this issue is going to (I believe) cost them dearly in terms of attendance. I have already left one church that preached the “man-up” gospel, and when I see the poor clueless young men in the youth group, it is easy to see that once they learn that that church has no answers they will be following me out the door.

    The real question is will there be a church that embraces truth and reality of what we face? If there is i expect it to grow like a weed with miracle gro around it.

  8. Devout young men would know that most women avoid serious relationships until their late twenties, with exceptions few and far between. That leaves the majority of young men in a dating wasteland.

    Popular media reinforces commitment postponement, which churchian culture encourages by telling its young women to get a career, be independent, travel the world and avoid getting ‘tied down.’

    Meanwhile the church divorce rate strongly resembles the secular world. A thoughtful young man might idly wonder what is there to prepare for: A mid 30s divorce and financial ruination?

  9. Deti,

    “women don’t care to understand how male attraction works, and think that male attraction should work just like female attraction does.”

    Exactly.

  10. “More women than men are poached by the degenerate culture. Why? They have more options and thus temptations (only alpha men have the constant temptation for sex the average woman has). Plus, women are more conformist and have shorter SMV time limits.”

    Yet it is church men that get lectured on avoiding porn, developing good money habits, avoiding pre-marital sex and respecting women’s choices.

    Women suffer from lacking empathy to understand the typical young mans experience. They think young men get as much attention, and sexual come-ons that they do. Unable to get past their own perspective, they become resentful and embrace depravity.

    PUAs know that church girls are easy pickings. But grace shouldn’t mean a free pass to sin.

  11. One reason for that (in my opinion), is the absolute lack of meaningful guidance from the church on the area of intersexual relations.

    Don’t get me wrong. There was no lack of “don’t look at porn, don’t ogle the women, don’t masturbate, don’t watch movies that show any skin or kissing.”

    But when it comes to teaching young men who grew up in a feminised culture how to properly and successfully “court” there was nothing. There was crap like “I kissed dating goodbye” but there was no guidance, just a litany of what not to do.

    Serious discussion of healthy intersexual relationships in accordance with Christian principles is the LAST thing churchianity wants to take on. Why? Because it would involve a deep dive into what Scripture actually says about the matter, something that involves 1) effort and 2) renouncing the message of the secular culture with which we have all been contaminated (but which doesn’t bother churchians at all). Both of these things are to churchians what salt is to snails or kryptonite is to Superman.

    Indirectly, the failure of the church-going men of the previous generation to help the young men has led to the rise of what they hate: the manosphere, as young men including Christian men went to find answers for themselves.

    The outright callous, apathetic neglect of, if not outright hostility toward their children’s future wellbeing is one of the sins that several generations of churchian parents are going to be answering for when they stand before the Judgment Table.

    The fact that much of the church still refuses to deal with reality on this issue is going to (I believe) cost them dearly in terms of attendance. I have already left one church that preached the “man-up” gospel, and when I see the poor clueless young men in the youth group, it is easy to see that once they learn that that church has no answers they will be following me out the door.

    It’s absolutely baffling, but these churches seem to truly not care. The common excuse I hear from churchians whenever I bring up this issue (more generally that of people leaving the church because of the egregiously unchristian behavior of the church leadership and the most active members) is something to the effect of “well, nobody’s perfect,” or “people shouldn’t turn their backs on God because of the behavior of the people who worship him” (and is it not an indication of the 4-watt candle power of the typical churchian brain that they’d condemn themselves this way and confirm the validity of your point?). I think too that, subconsciously, many simply think that “oh, he’ll be back,” or “oh well, there’s more where he came from.” Then again, community and cohesiveness as a body isn’t important in today’s corporate churchian franchises anyway.

    The real question is will there be a church that embraces truth and reality of what we face? If there is i expect it to grow like a weed with miracle grow around it.

    The short answer to your question is no – at least not from any incorporated church that is part of the majority today. These institutions are little more than Non-profit Jesus Fan Clubs that people belong to in order to pretend to righteousness and hear feel-good messages about themselves.

    The source of what you seek will come from grassroots gatherings of true believers, very similar to what we have here in the Christian manosphere. THEY will be the ones to continue evangelizing the truth, mostly through simple, mundane daily interactions with people, as opposed to fake “evangelical outreaches” which are the (occasional) provinces of churchian corporate franchises (and tht are also almost completely ineffective). The day of the corporate church is over as an instrument of the truth. These bodies were compromised decades ago and are not going to regenerate themselves.

  12. Novaseeker

    One reason for that (in my opinion), is the absolute lack of meaningful guidance from the church on the area of intersexual relations.

    Don’t get me wrong. There was no lack of “don’t look at porn, don’t ogle the women, don’t masturbate, don’t watch movies that show any skin or kissing.”

    But when it comes to teaching young men who grew up in a feminised culture how to properly and successfully “court” there was nothing. There was crap like “I kissed dating goodbye” but there was no guidance, just a litany of what not to do.

    @Crossphased —

    Well, it’s like someone stated upthread (Patrick, I think it was) — attracting women is like learning how to walk or how to talk. It just comes naturally to pretty much everyone and requires no specific learning, unless you’re developmentally retarded. That’s the perspective.

  13. Crossphased

    Nova: the entire culture teaches men to supplicate and put women on a pedestal. The church failed to teach their people the truth and bought into the lie of feminism.

    Obviously attracting women is not quite the same thing as learning to work, or we wouldn’t be here discussing these issues.

  14. Crossphased

    Walk, not work

  15. Novaseeker

    Obviously attracting women is not quite the same thing as learning to work, or we wouldn’t be here discussing these issues.

    I’m not disagreeing with you, but I am just stating what the perspective is that is being stated in the thread.

  16. Crossphased

    Nova: now I understand, thanks

  17. “Well, it’s like someone stated upthread (Patrick, I think it was) — attracting women is like learning how to walk or how to talk. It just comes naturally to pretty much everyone and requires no specific learning, unless you’re developmentally retarded. That’s the perspective.”

    and contra the poorly thought out metaphor:

    The way children learn how to walk is that SOMEONE TEACHES THEM. Someone SHOWS THEM HOW TO DO IT and TELLS THEM HOW TO DO IT. Someone actually spends time with the child helping them and teaching them. They have someone, usually parents, help them, encourage them, and pick them up when they fall. Someone actually helps them learn it and do it.

    The way children learn how to talk is spending time with people who actually talk and know how to talk. They watch, listen, spend time, and then imitate what they saw and heard over that couple of years.

    And children learn the same language, idioms, dialects and accents as the people they spend the most time with. Children of the deep south speak English with a southern drawl because that’s what they spent a couple of years hearing every day. They do not learn to speak Korean. Children from France learn French because they spend a couple of years with people speaking French every day. They do not learn to speak Russian.

    Feral children raised without anyone speaking to them never learn how to speak. Deaf mutes don’t learn to speak by hearing, because they can’t hear. Helen Keller was a mute, because she never heard anyone speak. She never learned it because never heard anyone do it.

  18. I recognize that I’m late on the thread. I strongly agree that the perception of a mis-behaving other sex has a *demoralizing* effect, leading to market drop-outs. This phenomenon succinctly explains my own situation anyway.

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