Market Analysis: Adjustments And Imbalances

My last significant post generated quite a lot of discussion, which was a plus. I want to thank my readers for keeping it civil. That makes my job that much easier. With it out of the way, I want to make a bit of a clarification of my own stance on the matter.

I ended my post Stock Imbalance with this:

Who has it harder in the marriage market: devout and serious minded Christian men, or devout and serious minded Christian women?

Can we even tell? And does it even matter?

I offered some responses to the first two questions earlier. But today I want to tackle the third. You see, I think that the imbalances do matter, and they should be talked about, if discussing them can help lead to solutions.

Description without prescription helps no one in my opinion. At best it leads us into a time sink. At worst it creates bitterness and mistrust. I might still be wasting time, but I think that trying to look for solutions to the problems in the market is still worthwhile.

Perhaps only personal solutions can be found- those that work at an individual level. That is something, at least.

But maybe solutions on a larger scale are possible. Perhaps that is merely at the level of a family, or maybe a particular church. Yet that will still be significant for the community in question. And you never know, it might be possible to sow the seeds of a long-term solution at some point. To set something in motion which will reap significant dividends in the end.

It might be just a fool’s hope, but it is better than nothing. Certainly I find it a better alternative to quiet despair.

So I intend to continue on with this line of inquiry- an examination of the marriage market, and a delving into possible methods of correcting the many problems that exist. My readers are more than welcome to chime in and add their own thoughts if they so desire. And if anyone finds this pointless, well, he or she can always sit it out.

Update: Just so I am crystal clear- at this point I don’t really care who has it better. What I do care about is imbalances- that is, forces which favor or disfavor men or women within the market. My goal is to discuss them with the hopes of eliminating as many forces that disfavor, and spreading around or boosting those forces which favor. I look on the situation as a case where a rising tide lifts all boats.



Filed under Marriage, Marriage Market Place, Red Pill

167 responses to “Market Analysis: Adjustments And Imbalances

  1. MK:

    “This I strongly doubt. Men might think it great if women had to follow Zip’s laws, but it’s a package deal and methinks 99% of men would say you’ve got to be kidding when it comes to them. Thing like throwing out the birth control and any divorce option. Not to mention belief in the Eucharist, obeying bishops, the obedience of faith, praying to the communion of saints (yes Mary!), and tossing out OSAS and faith alone…). Zip offers a package deal only. Gulp.”

    I have no problem with that, actually, since I think it will resolve 90+% of the problems discussed in this corner of the web. Bring it on. I stand by my original statement.

  2. Mk:

    “Back at you. Thanks for commenting. I always find your view informative.”

    That was actually directed to Patrick. But if you found something of value, i’m glad.

  3. Deti:
    This is when you introduced game in the thread: “If we’re to take folks like Zippy at their word that attempts to curry favor with women (i.e. be more attractive) are counterproductive, that’s really the only answer, since attractiveness is apparently “bad” and “immoral”.”

  4. thedeti


    I did not introduce game on this thread, or talk about “currying favor” with women. Zippy did that long before I even commented here on this thread. So I was wrong that the only person talking about game was you. Actually, zippy introduced game into this thread. I certainly didn’t.

  5. MK

    Zip: As for speculation about my person, I don’t discuss my personal life online but that sort of attempt at remote psychologizing is doubtless pretty amusing to folks who actually do know me personally.

    My apology; the comment was a lame attempt to be rhetorical, not a literal question. Was just LOL visualizing reading usury texts to put the kids to sleep, while chuckling at the inflamed trad memories from Shea’s blog back in the day…Seattle, software, Shea, Zip, and trads in the same thought block just smoked my brain.

    Deti: I have no problem with that…Bring it on.

    Yikes! What in the heck is the world coming to?? Myself, I still gulp :-)…

  6. So this post sort of exploded today. I haven’t had near enough time to read all the comments. I will try and do so. Otherwise, I hope to have the next post up tomorrow or Wednesday.

  7. PeterW.

    PArdon me for not following the conversation in its entirety, but when we say that no-one has any answers, let’s not forget two things.

    The first is that you almost always have to identify the problem before you can find the cure.

    Secondly, just because you find certain cures unacceptable, does not mean that everyone does. We are being out-bred by cultures that do not hesitate to arrange marriages and stone women who stray outside them.

    Not an option for Christians…. just don’t fall for the idea that modern western feminist culture is set in stone for all of human nature.

  8. I’ll throw my hat in the ring.

    I basically agree with Deti. If I understand him correctly (far be it from Dropit to put words in someone’s mouth!), he’s saying: whatever knowledge encoded in lifeways 200 years ago is gone. The Bible is true, but it can be interpreted and misinterpreted in enough ways to make modern application in this sphere difficult. Current common instruction is just bad, for reasons we’re all familiar with. This includes patriarchal Christian teaching, not because it’s wrong, but because it preaches a destination without a route—or with the route labeled as not leading to the destination, or some other confusion. Dalrock’s Lovestruck is proof enough that it only takes a little confusion to sow a lot of error.

    I should also mention: somewhere higher in the thread the LDS were mentioned as doing better than most on this. I’m LDS. And my response is: yeah, probably. But: Our marriage age is going up. We have the same demographics as most churches—a zillion single girls, a bunch of single men not showing up. My little sister doesn’t like to show it, but she’s worried. I have three very attractive single cousins, right in the middle fo Utah. The point is: What we had by grace—marriage flowing naturally from society—is gone or fast deteriorating. We can’t be children about this anymore.

    Anyway. I thank deti for being stubborn about this.

    I should point out: to some extent this is an opportunity. We figure this out, make it available for those seeking, and Christians will shine that much brighter in comparison to their surroundings. No fun from the inside, I know.

    What a privilege I have, corresponding with the faithful.

  9. PeterW.


    Would it be fair to suggest that we inherited a society that followed many of the principles of Judeo-Christian tradition because it was tradition – or habit – rather than from conviction.

    The last few half century, or a little more, have seen a lot of those traditions challenged and fall, because they were without the foundation of belief and the buttresses of principle.

    As Christians, we got into the habit of following society’s habits, instead of God’s principles….. and now that society has abandoned those good habits, we must rediscover what it is like to be a counter-cultural minority.

  10. PeterW.

    Or do we look at the injunction – in Romans 12 from memory – not to be moulded by society. We have let exactly that happen, when society seemed “not too bad”, but now that society is bad and getting worse, we have no practice in standing against it.

    On this topic I feel like something of an armchair expert, because I have no daughters to raise….. but I cannot help feeling that those raising daughters have the bigger challenge.

    But then, I would… 🙄

  11. Dropit:

    Yes, what you’ve said are good paraphrases and summaries of what I’ve said here and elsewhere. (also, for the record, the only people talking about Game on this thread were Crossphased, Zippy and Patrick. For whatever reason they focused on that red herring. That’s not on me.)

    The problem is, once we leave the “SMP”, where do we go from there? No one has any answers for that. I think those who really want to remain devout will simply not marry because they can’t marry someone of similar devotion. I suppose Nova is right that most will break down and marry sexual degenerates, and do the best they can.

  12. Deti, all you’re talking about is Game. You don’t have to say the word to be talking about it.

  13. “most will break down and marry sexual degenerates, and do the best they can”

    That’s been happening within the churches for a while now. Men are encouraged to date and marry single mommies. Women who fall pregnant out of wedlock are rewarded with baby showers and appointed to church caring ministries.

    “What I do care about is imbalances- that is, forces which favor or disfavor men or women within the market.”

    The imbalances affect men first, but women years later. Women are postponing commitment and masking the problems. Given churchian theology incorporates radical feminist thought, this isn’t an issue for church leadership until little Miss Snowflake is 32 and can’t find someone to match her 463-point checklist.

    Men’s experiences in the ten years is an imbalance as mens needs simply aren’t taken seriously. Until some of them withdraw from the process to do things they want to, and they are then blamed for the accumulative outcome (lack of marriages) of a long process of hypergamy and feminist gratification.

  14. Can people change, and be reformed? Absolutely.

    Are there consequences from choices made early in life? Absolutely. Debt; lifestyle-induced disease; poverty.

    Are young men obliged to marry any woman that claims a change of direction? Unless you’re unreservedly calvinist, no.

    Will some people be hurt by rejection? Absolutely. Young men experience it a lot, and grow through the process. But young women are protected rejection and from consequences and told they can do whatever they want. Lies.

    Repentance takes away sin, not consequences. The latter can last a lifetime and beyond.

  15. Patrick:

    The only people talking about Game on this thread were you and Zippy.

  16. Are we just going to send men and women off to fend for themselves and find out what they can on their own?

    That’s exactly what we’ve been doing for the last three or four generations, hence the societal wasteland we find ourselves in.

    I admit to being astounded by the fact that so many parents, “Christian” or secular, who want to micromanage every other aspect of their childrens’ lives, most of them trivial, won’t touch the dating/sex/marriage thing with a fifty-foot pole.

    Why is this? What is it that parents find so repulsive about giving guidance to their children on something that, other than their birth and death, is arguably the most important make-or-break, longest-term-consequences event of their lives? Their own insecurities? Envy of their posterity? Fear? Ignorance of the world their children live in (and a fear of revealing that ignorance)? Apathy? Laziness? Cluelessness?

    Whatever tbe reason, the neglect has wrought horrifyingly destructive consequences abnd even cost some lives.

  17. Pingback: Market Analysis: Penny Stocks | Donal Graeme

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