The Way We Met

[See update at the bottom of the post.]

I ran across the following story via a friend. Apparently it is part of some Facebook feed called The Way We Met:

“I was best friends with George for 10 years before we started dating. We met in High School and developed a really special friendship over the years. I always felt more comfortable telling George something than anyone else I knew. He became my most trusted companion and we hung out all the time. People who didn’t know us always thought we were dating. When we went our separate ways for college, we didn’t talk as much anymore but our friendship remained just as strong. George was always there for me after every bad relationship ended to help me pick up the pieces. I would often say to people, “I think friends can be soul mates, I really think George is mine.” It was odd how we would say the same thing at the same time and always knew what the other person was thinking. I always knew how much George meant to me, but it wasn’t until after my Mom got remarried that I started to look at him in a different light. The day of my Mom’s wedding I came down the stairs and he looked up at me with a big smile and said, “You look beautiful baby,” and then kissed me on the cheek. I don’t know why but something about that moment has always stuck out so strongly to me. The rest of the evening I kept staring at him and thinking about how handsome he was, what a gentleman he was, and how much I cared about him. We danced with each other all night and I realized how perfectly we fit together. It felt like home. After that, it took a couple weeks of nervous deliberation but we finally decided we wanted to be together. It’s crazy to think that my soul mate has been with me this whole time, I just wasn’t ready to accept it yet.”

There are a couple of images that accompany this. They are side by side for comparison:

14141609_1178146145576790_2498376556313770735_n

Now some of you might recognize these images. That is because I featured them in my recent post, Telling Photos. Now that I have included the text that accompanies the photos we can finally start with the making of sense.

So what do we learn from both of them together? Here are a few things:

  • The guy (George), was a beta orbiter for a long, long time.
  • The gal (whose name I don’t have), had numerous broken relationships. A reasonable inference can be made that [those relationships, or at least some of them, were sexual, although it is not certain].
  • The gal believes in Soul Mates. Ouch.
  • The gal’s mom was either a divorcee or was a widow. That is not good news for good ol’ George [if it is the latter].
  • They are probably somewhere between 24 and 28 years old.
  • George majorly stepped up his attractiveness over those ten years.
  • She was somewhat overweight at first, and it seems she has managed to get at least some of that weight off.

[A number of these are red flags. They are indicators of possible problems with her as LTR material. That doesn’t necessarily mean she is poor material, but they should prompt caution.]

Here is the thing- if someone who wasn’t “Red Pill” savvy read this piece, they would probably find it sweet. Those of us who are savvy, however, would probably have an entirely different reaction. I found the story sad, not sweet.

You see, reading the piece and looking at those photos tells me that the woman here wasn’t having issues accepting that she was supposed to be with George. Rather, the problem from the beginning was that George just wasn’t sexually attractive. He was too “Beta”, if you will. Since he wasn’t sexually attractive to her, his other great traits meant jack. However, as the years passed by George grew in confidence, and it shows in that second photo. Eventually his attractiveness grew to the point where she no longer dismissed him as a sexual partner. At that point his other great traits were able to come to the forefront, and before you know it you have this:

I realized how perfectly we fit together.”

Among other things, this story serves as further evidence in support of Rollo Tomassi’s SMV chart:

Print

What happened here is that the girl’s SMV started out much higher than George’s. However, as time went on his SMV continued to climb and climb. Meanwhile, age has reduced the girl’s potential SMV. However, her (presumed) weight loss had the effect of reducing the effective loss of SMV that she felt. The end result of all of this is that both are pretty close in comparative SMV at the time of this photo.

I mentioned before that I find this sad. The reason why is simple: George is now attractive enough that he can get the attention of decent looking girls (I suspect that while most readers would disagree about the actual number, most would agree that she is at least attractive). Yet what does he do with that newfound power? He goes after the girl he has been crushing on for a decade. A girl with all kinds of baggage (which she freely admits to). A girl whose mother probably was a divorcee. A girl who might very well be reaching her “Epiphany phase,” and thus looking to “cash out”on what remains of her SMV.

George seems like a decent guy, and now probably one with options. He should have focused on younger women with less baggage. Instead he married a girl with more red flags than a Communist parade.

Now that I have fleshed out the rest of this story, I invite my readers to comment further. I believe some good solid lessons can be derived here. Sure, most will already know them, but a refresher course never hurts. Plus you never know, there is always the chance for some newfound wisdom.

*For the record, the couple put all of this out there. They made it public, not me. I am merely commenting on what is effectively a public statement of theirs.

Update: Made a few corrections to try and clarify things; they are in brackets. People came to more conclusions than I was expecting in this post.

Update 2: I wrote a followup post which addresses the problems with this one- In Defense of George.

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41 Comments

Filed under Alpha, Alpha Widow, APE, Attraction, Beta, Blue Pill, Hypergamy, LAMPS, Marriage, Marriage Market Place, Masculinity, Men, Red Pill, Serial Monogamy, Sexual Market Place, Sexual Strategies, State of Nature

41 responses to “The Way We Met

  1. Pictures are worth 1000 words.

    Body language is really 80-90% of communication, which is how we can tell so much about a man and a woman from it.

  2. anonymous_ng

    From what she’s written, I’m guessing that although George’s SMV has risen, she still wears the pants in their relationship. He appears more confident with her, but doesn’t give off the vibe of a man who is confident in himself and his ability to grab a younger, hotter gal if she becomes too much trouble.

  3. MK

    …it wasn’t until after my Mom got remarried that I started to look at him in a different light.’

    You can see this insecurity in pic1. Divorce kills the daughter’s soul.

    He should have focused on younger women…he married a girl with more red flags than a Brazilian soccer match…sad…

    Mere Christian projection. Sex just doesn’t mean that much these days. Pagan culture rules. I know a guy who married his best friend’s ex-wife (3 husbands, all friends, you never know who which kid’s dad is). And these guys are plenty masculine (outdoorsmen types) they just don’t give a rip about the whole family thing; American women are tradable property that don’t age well…it’s hard to argue with that logic…are you still driving your car from 20 ya?

    Sure, chastity is a serious deal for any guy who invests in family. But who plays this game anymore? What women stress ’bout landing a “husband” to tend/defend the family anymore? The few who do usually marry early, religious, and go domestic (note the “few”). But with 1.8 average kids? Who needs chastity (or men)? Lots of men enjoy this situation (George may well be one of them; marriage may be just what the doc ordered to get the confidence to branch out while keeping his old-time crush handy for romance). Married men with limited family investment do well for themselves these days…this ain’t 1980 anymore…

  4. Younger women?
    She doesn’t look old at all; she looks younger than 25. Also, some women age slower and so they could be older than what they look. And some women age faster and can younger than what they look. I also think the peak for some women isn’t 23, it can be older or younger for some women.

    Anyway, that isn’t the point. I’m not going to lie, it does look pathetic to wait on a girl for years on years while she continually rejects you and then let her pick you up again on her convenience. That just screams no confidence and no respect for self. He may look the part but with a blunder like that…isn’t quite there yet. You can only fake it for so long.

  5. It’s sad because
    1. Like you said, he wasn’t aware that his value will increase. Baggage from a wife takes a lifetime of learning, testing and prayers to overcome.
    2. The natures of men and women as well as their value haven’t been emphasised or highlighted enough among disciples of Christ.
    3. Marrying young surely has its advantages.

  6. Not much else to say, Donal. Ten years an orbiter demonstrates who is the romantic here.

    I personally just don’t get the attraction of girls with that much baggage. He could have done so much better, and with much less possibility of long term marital discord.

  7. Coastal

    The Red Pill has really changed how I view typical ‘romance’. The old me would have read that story and felt happy that the guy got out of the ‘friend zone’, but all I’m doing right now is cringing.

  8. Another thing we can glean from the photos and the story is this: She got with George because she became sexually attracted to him. George in photo 1 was not sexually attractive. George in photo 2 is sexually attractive. He has a number of universally attractive physical traits.

    She became sexually attracted to him because he increased his sexual attractiveness by leaps and bounds; and she noticed it.

    She did not get with George for any other reason. Everyone reading this story needs to be clear about that (including you lurkers out there, you know who you are).

    She is not with George because he kissed her on the cheek at her mom’s second wedding. She is not with George because he was her friend. She is not with George because he was so kind, or a good friend, or because he hung around for so long. She is not with George because he is her “soulmate” or because she suddenly realized how compatible they are.

    She is with George because she finally got sexually attracted to him.

    She was not before.

  9. Again — most people, especially most Christians, severely underestimate the role of physical attraction in coupling and sexual decisions. Most women deny that sexual attraction is important. Most men don’t want to believe it’s important.

    Sexual attraction IS important. It’s THAT important. It is a dealbreaker.

    If she is not sexually attracted to you, RUN, do not walk. NEXT her immediately if you have ANY doubts about her attraction to you.

  10. Lost Patrol

    Some guy and his cousin at the prom.

    I was really close on that one.

    In the first round Rollo posited that the photos show before and after awareness. I wonder if George is aware now, but the whole story makes it sound like he still is not, though he has obviously upped his game. Would be worth money to have his side of this story.

  11. Novaseeker

    One-itis is a thing.

    He has improved physically in his presentation, for certain, but not in his interior frame. Having one-itis for a woman who comes from a divorced family and has a checkered relationship history of her own is a failure of inner frame in a substantial way, unfortunately. She’s obviously in control of everything here — as soon as she said OK, there he was, like a good puppy. Hollywood likes that, but reality doesn’t, unfortunately.

  12. Leiff

    She has a pretty face and nice hair. Her legs are pretty thick in that second picture. I’d say she’s still carrying an extra 20-25 lbs.
    I guess I’m the only one who thinks George is a homosexual, possibly in denial. Looks like the guy from Wham!

  13. One major problem with too many women is their inability to state the real reasons behind their attraction. They will give some window dressing answer, when the real truth lies behind the curtain.

    That’s one of the reasons that a man cannot take the majority of women seriously. Their answers are designed to confuse, not clarify.

  14. Leiff

    Looks like my previous comment was eaten by spam filter. 2nd try.

    She’s still about 20-25 lbs overweight, though she has a pretty face and nice hair.

    George looks like a homosexual to me, possibly in denial. He looks like the guy from Wham!

  15. Lost Patrol

    @Novaseeker:
    ” — as soon as she said OK, there he was, like a good puppy.”

    Nailed the punchline of the story. This happens a lot. It makes you wonder why so many of them op for cats, when what they really want is an enthusiastic dog.

  16. MK

    TD, George in photo 1 was not sexually attractive.

    Neither was she. But as Nova says: One-itis. Women are more practical.

    MS, women’s inability to state real reasons behind attraction.

    Snort. Women know. But men’s stupidity helps the tribe, eh?

    AO, I don’t get attraction to girls with baggage

    Marriage 2.0+ is just “the best I can do…for now”. Then it makes sense.

  17. His story is textbook, Beta-In-Waiting:
    https://therationalmale.com/2015/03/24/betas-in-waiting/

    He’s not Red Pill aware, he’s simply upped his attractiveness and is a good example of the sexual opportunism that defines women’s concept of love. Would any of her feelings have changed for him if he’d remained in his bookish style and his SMV hadn’t risen with maturity while hers decayed to the point that she could no longer ignore her inability to compete with her sexual peers?

    ONEitis is a thing for him, not for her. She’s just made her necessity a virtue and countless Betas in Waiting will look to this story as a sign of hope while Epiphany Phase women will feel affirmed following a similar plan.

    She’s just one more girl following the path I outlined in Preventive Medicine.

  18. Lost Patrol

    “She’s just made her necessity a virtue” – the hamster!

    “and countless Betas in Waiting will look to this story as a sign of hope” – lambs to the slaughter. One sympathizes. If you know a Beta in Waiting, send him some links to the sphere.

    “while Epiphany Phase women will feel affirmed following a similar plan.” – Of course, self righteousness is easily affirmed.

  19. Novaseeker

    She’s just one more girl following the path I outlined in Preventive Medicine.

    Yes, precisely.

  20. Anonymous Reader

    Here is the saddest part IMO. Thousands of churchgoing people will look at this story and have their own biases confirmed: “Awww! That’s sweet! They were Friends First“. “Friends First” is a thing. I’ve heard it from parents and preachers more times than I care to think. Maybe it’s a book by now, I dunno.

    Women who want to be the boss (just like their mothers) will just about always pick one of their beta orbiters to move out of the Friend Zone into the Hubby zone. It will be deemed by their church to be a very good marriage, because they were Friends First.

    Saw such a wedding earlier this year. Sorry, no details. But it was painful to watch through The Glasses because I knew merely from observation of the two of them what the back story is.

    it’s a recipe for frustration on both sides. But since the churches are mainly Beta factories now, there’s not much alternative.

  21. feeriker

    Again — most people, especially most Christians, severely underestimate the role of physical attraction in coupling and sexual decisions

    It’s more a matter of them ignoring it/pretending it’s not a thing. Most Christians today, especially (sadly) Christian men, KNOW that they are not sexually attractive to the opposite sex and have no concept of game or self-improvement. That church “leaders” who consider themselves “experts” on Christian marriage and family matters, many of whom know better, have so thoroughly failed to address this, is one of the church’s most tragic and destructive shortcomings.

  22. Feeriker:

    I agree that Christians/Cuckstians ignore sexual attraction and pretend it’s not a thing. But my agreement ends there.

    most cuckstians don’t know they are not sexually attractive. They don’t even know what sexual attraction is. They believe they ARE sexually attractive. They have listened to women in their churches tell them “nice is sexually attractive, being Godly is sexually attractive, doing dishes and leading devotionals is sexually attractive”, etc. So most cuckstian men are laboring under the delusion that their prayer lives, singing in the church choir, reading their bibles, and being unfailingly nice to everyone is moistening panties around the Church. Because they are listening to what cuckstian married women, who themselves are married to men they aren’t attracted to, are saying about what is “attractive”.

    Cuckstians think they are addressing this with their “slow cooker” theory of female sexual attraction and with their claims of “well, if your wives aren’t attracted to you, it’s because you aren’t righteous enough.” And Church leaders don’t really know better. Google Dennis Rainey. Check out his photo. Are you really going to take sexual attraction lessons from him?

    And I’m not sure the Church/cucks should be trusted with this at all anymore. Sorry that lots of men didn’t have dads and older men to teach this to them. But they cannot go to the church for this. They need to be with individual men, men who actually know something about this stuff. At the very least they need to stop listening to women and marriage ministries, most of which pander to women who are the ones who buy the books and go to the “conferences”.

  23. @ Deep Strength

    Pictures are worth 1000 words.

    You ain’t just whistling Dixie…

    @ Lovelyleblanc

    Anyway, that isn’t the point. I’m not going to lie, it does look pathetic to wait on a girl for years on years while she continually rejects you and then let her pick you up again on her convenience. That just screams no confidence and no respect for self. He may look the part but with a blunder like that…isn’t quite there yet. You can only fake it for so long.

    Quite right here. I can almost guarantee that part of her is thinking the same thing. But that pragmatic aspect of her female nature is in override mode at the moment.

    @ an observer

    I personally just don’t get the attraction of girls with that much baggage. He could have done so much better, and with much less possibility of long term marital discord.

    It is the disease of Oneitis. A virulent affliction it is.

    @ Deti

    I sort of preempted you in my post, but of course you are right. Especially about this:

    If she is not sexually attracted to you, RUN, do not walk. NEXT her immediately if you have ANY doubts about her attraction to you.

    @ Novaseeker

    Yes, his internal frame is still severely lacking. I sadly forecast a divorce in the future.

  24. @ Major Styles

    That’s one of the reasons that a man cannot take the majority of women seriously. Their answers are designed to confuse, not clarify.

    It is yet more filtering/testing on their part. They never stop looking for a man who “Just Gets It.”

    @ Rollo

    Yes, this is textbook everything. If you haven’t taken a bow already, do so.

    @ Anonymous Reader

    That Friends First nonsense irks me as well. The fools have confused Philos with Eros and Agapos.

    @ Feeriker/Deti

    Interesting debate about what the Necropolians (I like Cane’s idea) believe re: sexual attraction. Might be worth visiting in a future post. Assuming I haven’t already, of course.I’ve forgotten too many of my old posts.

  25. jg1

    For some reason the picture tells me that the couple maybe into swinger lifestyle…just a hunch, I maybe wrong here…

  26. MK

    jg1, the picture tells me swinger life

    You see what bothered me. Way too dapper now. No beta-in-waiting in #2. Everyone here is projecting their personal experience of the world:
    1) Rollo: romantic men taken advantage of by coy women.
    2) Donal: Christian men of virtue taken advantage of by immoral women.
    3) Deti: ignorant men taken advantage of by sexually aware women.

    None of these projections fit the last picture. Both are too socially aware.

  27. @ MK

    I was in no way insinuating what you say I was. Look above- no mention by me of Christian. As far as I can tell, entirely secular here. As for swingers, that is always a possibility- but again, that is projection by those who claim it, in so far that those who dress like that are swingers in that person’s experience.

  28. MK

    DG, I was in no way insinuating what you say I was.

    I never said you said so. I posited your view came from personal experiences. Heck, we’ve all been around the blog enough we could write each other’s comments. Mine are predictable too; I don’t think they swing, only that jd1 sees what I did, a man of the world, no beta. Could be wrong.

  29. I also saw something of a man of the world in the photo too. Of course, it wasn’t a swinger, but rather a guy moving bricks down in Miami. But the words that accompanied it provide a clearer picture, I think. Some guys can look very worldly, but it is just a facade.

  30. Cadders

    Bit late to this. I was way off with my extrapolation of them having ‘grown together’. I think MK is right – there was some projection here. I guess there is still enough blue-pill in me to have wanted the best story-line for them. Sad that it has turned out otherwise.

  31. MK

    DG, words that accompanied it provide a clearer picture, I think
    Got it. I just assumed wife posted it while he rolled eyes. I always project.

    Cad, wanted the best story for them.
    Me too. I’m a sucker for romance. Said another way: I’m a fool.
    It’s a brilliant post to elucidate our natural beta, eh?

  32. Tigersault

    “Instead he married a girl with more red flags than a Communist parade.”

    That made me smile, Donal.

    “*For the record, the couple put all of this out there. They made it public, not me. I am merely commenting on what is effectively a public statement of theirs.”

    Let that be a warning to anyone: you don’t want people knowing sensitive topics, don’t put them on Facebook, use an unencrypted text message system, etc.

    My two cents: I found myself in a similar situation a few years ago. I was the beta and the girl I was after and I had known each other for about twenty years, more or less, but hadn’t seen each other in a while due to her moving to another state. Once I ended up where she was, I tried going after her and it failed, badly. Note: no, I was not beta orbiting her for 20. Just needed to clarify that. Recently, before I started dating my current girlfriend, I saw a photo of said girl. All I have to say is, “Wow!” Some hit the wall softly…others like her hit it hard! I don’t know if she was a carousel rider or not but man does she look horrid, and that’s only compared to four years ago.

    To all those single out there, especially men in their 20’s, don’t be an orbiter. It’s a waste of time. Yeah, rejection sucks. Get over it and better yourself. If they come crawling back to you, just reference the chart Donal cross posted from Rollo. Smile and cary on gents.

    “You can see this insecurity in pic1. Divorce kills the daughter’s soul.”

    It certainly does and is quite the red flag. I almost forgot to mention…the girl I was after, yeah parents are divorced.

    “The Red Pill has really changed how I view typical ‘romance’. The old me would have read that story and felt happy that the guy got out of the ‘friend zone’, but all I’m doing right now is cringing.”

    Same here.

    “She’s still about 20-25 lbs overweight, though she has a pretty face and nice hair.”

    Beef: it’s what’s for dinner.

    “Friends First’ is a thing. I’ve heard it from parents and preachers more times than I care to think. Maybe it’s a book by now, I dunno.” I have, too. It’s ridiculous.

  33. Pingback: None The Wiser | Donal Graeme

  34. There are a couple of conclusions that you came to Donal that we don’t have enough evidence from the girl to support coming to those particular conclusions definitively.

    1) You said: The gal (whose name I don’t have), had numerous broken relationships. A reasonable inference can be made that she rode the carousel somewhat. …. That’s a pretty big leap to make. She didn’t mention anything about having sex with anyone, so we can’t say for sure that she did. I personally have whined to close friends about failed relationships, but I never had sex with any of them. It’s entirely possible that she didn’t either. I don’t think it’s reasonable at all to assume that she did something like that without 1) evidence, or 2) an admission from her that she did. (I suspect that the reason I noticed this in the post is because I’m currently dealing with a very frustrating situation where I’m being falsely accused of some pretty bad things by a good female friend of my boyfriend, so I know how off a conclusion can be when you assume things and when you either 1) don’t have all the facts, and/or 2) don’t want to believe all the facts when you learn them.)

    2) She said her Mom got remarried, which you admit could either mean that she was divorced or widowed. But she didn’t specify which one is actually the case. If her parents divorced, that could be a red flag for her. But if her Mom was widowed, that wouldn’t be a red flag for her. But you are assuming that it was divorce, when there’s a 50/50 chance that her Mom was a widow. Again, we shouldn’t jump to conclusions about that, but should instead say that *if* it was divorce, that it would *then* be prudent to consider that a red flag.

    This of course means that by extension, George could’ve been judged too harshly as well, depending on if those two assumptions that you made were incorrect or not.

  35. I don’t think it’s reasonable at all to assume that she did something like that without 1) evidence, or 2) an admission from her that she did.

    To expand on that, I’d have to add that it’s not charitable to do that either. I know that was not at all your intention, and that the situation was just being looked at through red pill lenses. Having said that, I think it’s important for all of us to try to keep that in mind when evaluating individual people, as opposed to an evaluation of the general population.

  36. Before I get argued with by someone or other, I think I should expand a bit more and explain what I meant. The reason I said it’s uncharitable when we do that is because it becomes what they call “character assassination” if what we think and then say about someone isn’t true after all.

  37. Actually, correction: rather than character assassination, which would require intent, it would be more like gossip/slander/libel. The ruin of one’s reputation.

  38. To respond to one point that Cassie made, the odds of her mother marrying as a widow are not 50/50. More like 1/10. See this study:

    https://www.census.gov/hhes/socdemo/marriage/data/sipp/us-remarriage-poster.pdf

  39. Pingback: In Defense Of George | Donal Graeme

  40. Pingback: Believing Is Not Seeing | Donal Graeme

  41. Cassie:

    “I don’t think it’s reasonable at all to assume that she did something like that [ride the carousel somewhat]”

    Sure it is. Maybe this ONE woman didn’t, but what are the chances that she is still a virgin when she gets to George? What are the chances of her having had NO past sex partners? Not very good. A woman with her physical appearance would have no trouble whatsoever locking down a player for a one nighter or an STR, or a male 6-7 for a relationship. Most Christian women are having sex with their boyfriends. Most Christian women have at least one failed sexual relationship under their belts. Today, it is not reasonable to presume that the woman in front of you is a virgin, when at least 80% of women who have made it to age 24 have had sex at least once. That includes Christians.

    The chances of a woman of about age 50 (old enough to be this girl’s mother) being a widow are NOT 50/50. Most unmarried women of that vintage are divorced, not widowed, and not never-married. By the time a woman gets to 45, she has a 90% chance of having been married at least once.

    I don’t agree at all with Donal’s walking this post back, nor with the pushback from the ladies’ contingent. Not one bit. Sure there are assumptions made. But those assumptions are ENTIRELY reasonable, from men’s perspective. Is a man in George’s position wise to take a flyer on this woman after having orbited her and then increased his SMV? He isn’t — he’s better off plowing new ground rather than rooting through his own past, and that’s putting it charitably.

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