Tradition Thursday- #56

Today I would like to quote from St. John Chrysostom’s fifth homily on first Thessalonians. I believe I have quoted from it before, albeit not in this series. Here is some of the latter part of his homily, after he decries fornication among men:

What then do I advise, so as to extirpate the roots? So many of you as have young sons, and are bringing them up to a worldly life, quickly draw them under the yoke of marriage. For since while he is yet young desires trouble him, for the time before marriage, by admonitions, threats, fears, promises, and numberless other methods restrain them. But at the season of marriage, let no one defer it. Behold, I speak the words of a match-maker, that you should let your sons marry. But I am not ashamed to speak thus, since not even Paul was ashamed to say, Defraud ye not one the other 1 Corinthians 7:5, which seems more shameful than what I have said; yet he was not ashamed. For he did not pay heed to words, but to the acts that were set right by words. When your son is grown up, before he enters upon warfare, or any other course of life, consider of his marriage. And if he sees that you will soon take a bride for him, and that the time intervening will be short, he will be able to endure the flame patiently. But if he perceives that you are remiss and slow, and waitest until he shall acquire a large income, and then you will contract a marriage for him, despairing at the length of the time, he will readily fall into fornication. But alas! The root of evils here also is the love of money. For since no one cares how far his son shall be sober and modest, but all are mad for gold, for this reason no one makes this a matter of concern. Wherefore I exhort you first to regulate well their souls. If he find his bride chaste, and know that body alone, then will both his desire be vehement, and his fear of God the greater, and the marriage truly honorable, receiving bodies pure and undefiled; and the offspring will be full-charged with blessing, and the bride and bridegroom will comply with one another, for both being inexperienced in the manners of others, they will submit to one another. But one that begins when younger to wax wanton, and to have experience of the ways of harlots, for the first and second evening will praise his own wife; but after that he will soon fall back into that wantonness, seeking that dissolute and disorderly laughter, the words that are full of base import, the dissolute deportment, and all the other indecency, which it is not tolerable that we should mention. But a woman of free estate would not endure to make such exhibitions, nor to tarnish herself. For she was espoused to her husband to be his partner in life, and for the procreation of children, not for the purposes of indecency and laughter; that she might keep the house, and instruct him also to be grave, not that she might supply to him the fuel of fornication.

I said indeed to your fathers, that they ought early to lead you to marriage: but nevertheless neither are you without liability to punishment. For if there were not other young men also, more numerous than you, living in chastity, both formerly, and now, there would perhaps be some excuse for you. But if there are, how can you say, that we were not able to restrain the flame of lust? For they, who have been able, are your accusers, in that they are partakers of the same nature. Hear Paul saying, Follow after peace…and the sanctification, without which no man shall see the Lord. Hebrews 12:14 Is not this threat sufficient to terrify you? Do you see others continuing altogether in chastity, and in gravity passing their lives; and cannot you command yourself even so long as the period of youth? Do you see others ten thousand times overcoming pleasure, and cannot you once refrain? With your leave, I will tell you the cause. For youth is not the cause, since then all young men would be dissolute. But we thrust ourselves into the fire. For when you go up to the theater, and sit feasting your eyes with the naked limbs of women, for the time indeed you are delighted, but afterwards, you have nourished thence a mighty fever. When you see women exhibited as it were in the form of their bodies and spectacles and songs containing nothing else but irregular loves: such a woman, it is said, loved such a man, and not obtaining him, hanged herself; and unlawful loves having mothers for their object; when you receive these things by hearing also, and through women, and through figures, yea, and even through old men, (for many there put masks upon their faces, and play the parts of women,) tell me, how will you be able to continue chaste afterwards, these narratives, these spectacles, these songs occupying your soul, and dreams of this sort henceforth succeeding. For it is the nature of the soul for the most part to raise visions of such things, as it wishes for and desires in the daytime. Therefore when you there both see base actions, and hear baser words, and receive indeed the wounds but do not apply the remedies, how will not the sore naturally be increased? How will not the disease become more intense; and in a much greater degree than in our bodies? For if we were willing, our will admits of correction more easily than our bodies. For there indeed drugs, and physicians, and time are required, but here it is sufficient having but the will, to become both good and bad. So that you have rather admitted the disorder. When therefore we gather to us indeed the things that injure, but pay no regard to the things that benefit, how can there ever be any health?

(Source)

[Sorry for the length of paragraphs. Should I break them up for ease of reading?]

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5 Comments

Filed under Tradition

5 responses to “Tradition Thursday- #56

  1. Pingback: Tradition Thursday- #56 – Manosphere.org

  2. Michael Kozaki

    You see others overcoming pleasure, and cannot you once refrain?…the cause…we thrust ourselves into the fire…you go to the theater, and sit feasting your eyes with the naked limbs of women…you have nourished a mighty fever.

    Imagine Chrysostom discussing internet porn. Or Tinder. No need for the theater today, just go for a walk, to work, or church…

    Women exhibited as nothing but irregular loves

    Hello, Roissy!

    Unlawful loves having mothers for their object…for many there put masks upon their faces, and play the parts of women…tell me, how will you be able to continue chaste afterwards

    Son-mother and transgender, all in the same sentence? Just the thought makes a normal person chaste. Today is rough (homo & transgendered) but Incest and bestiality have yet to make it mainstream. Yet.

  3. @ Michael

    Imagine Chrysostom discussing internet porn. Or Tinder.

    Present Church leaders do not, as a general rule, have difficulty discussing those subjects. Or putting them in a harsh light. If anything, I think that the Doctor would likely focus on those who do discuss porn and Tinder and the like… but do nothing to help men into a more lasting solution.

    Today is rough (homo & transgendered) but Incest and bestiality have yet to make it mainstream. Yet.

    Emphasis on “Yet.” Give it a few years. Maybe less, the way things are going.

  4. Worth pointing out (important parts in bold)-

    If he find his bride chaste, and know that body alone, then will both his desire be vehement, and his fear of God the greater, and the marriage truly honorable, receiving bodies pure and undefiled; and the offspring will be full-charged with blessing, and the bride and bridegroom will comply with one another, for both being inexperienced in the manners of others, they will submit to one another.

    St. John Chrysostom pretty clearly anticipated that a young man who was a virgin would be marrying a chaste young woman who was also a virgin. I find his not mentioning the other possibility (a virgin man marrying a non-virgin woman) to be quite an important omission.

  5. Michael Kozaki

    I find his not mentioning the other possibility (a virgin man marrying a non-virgin woman) to be quite an important omission.

    I doubt it meant anything; virgin brides were normal for his time. Not a moral issue, just practical. Daughter premarital sex threatened mom and dad’s survival in old age. Not sons, since women had no property rights. Male virginity (and female dignity) was the strange, new moral argument Christians offered.

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