Reference: Women, Not Men, Are Driving The Delay In Christian Marriage

[This is a reference post, made to be linked to in the future by myself, or anyone else who finds it helpful and convenient. It may be updated over time to include both past and future conduct.]

There is a significant delay right now in the age of first marriage in the US. We are well outside the historical norm, with women now at marrying at roughly 27 and men at 29. As many have pointed out, including myself, this is a disaster with many repercussions. Among them are a huge increase in sexual immorality, an increase in divorce and a drop in the birthrate.

Possible solutions for this problem are outside the context of this post. Instead, the focus is on why this problem developed. Some have accused men of driving the delay in marriage. An example of this can be found in one of Dalrock’s posts, Clearing the Christian marriage-market.  Dalrock correctly points out to one “Pastor Wilson” that it is not men (or at least, not primarily men) who are responsible for this. Rather, it is women who are driving the delay in marriage in the US right now. To quote from that post:

He overlooks the fact that women are very open about their desire to ride the carousel for as long as possible before marriage.  He also clearly doesn’t understand the realities of the sexual marketplace (SMP) and marriage marketplace (MMP).  Young women are the rockstars of the SMP, while young men are near the bottom.  Since young women have the power, they set the terms.  And what women want* is years, if not a decade or more, of sex with a small subset of the most attractive men before settling for a boring loyal dude.  It makes no sense that men would prefer to marry just when their SMP stock is on the rise, and just when the SMP stock of their soon to be bride is rapidly declining.

Now, women need not desire to participate in the carousel, or at least not participate (although they may want to) to delay marriage. They might simply use their twenties for other endeavors. For example, there is the phenomenon of “Good Christian Girls” going on extended mission trips or ministries or the like. Adding up, they can do these for years, and in the process, delay marriage.

If it were men delaying marriage, and not women, then we would see a greater divergence between the median age of men and first marriage, and the median age of women at first marriage. But there is no such divergence. The gap between the two has remained relatively constant over the course of decades. Given that men prefer young women over older women, all else being equal, and given that women prefer men a few years older than themselves, we can determine that this delay is largely attributable to women.

Update 1:

As a matter of clarification, I am speaking about the micro level here. It is individual women choosing to delay marriage, en masse, which is driving this delay. This is not to say that men are not involved in this process. A fair number of men are delaying marriage too- some because they are told to, and others because they don’t need marriage to get their share of female companionship. In addition, fathers play a huge role in this delay of marriage. Many of them are essentially teaching their daughters to act like sons, and encouraging them towards a life path that necessitates marriage. So men are not blameless here.

At the same time, if one wants to fix this problem, and it is a problem, the primary focus needs to be on changing female behavior. Of course, that necessitates that fathers stop giving bad advice to their daughters. But the focus is on female behavior all the same, although covering the penumbra of factors which influence it.

Furthermore, I am not interested in a blame game. Rather, the goal is to identify a problem, and its source.

[ My readers are of course encouraged to offer their own thoughts as well, and any data they have to support it.]

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170 Comments

Filed under Blue Pill, Christianity, Churchianity, Courtship, Marriage, Marriage Market Place, Men, Red Pill, The Church

170 responses to “Reference: Women, Not Men, Are Driving The Delay In Christian Marriage

  1. thedeti

    Cassie:

    You’ve never once in your life met a good looking, fit man with a high-earning job, some money, and who is socially adept and who has had sex with more than a few women? Never? Not once?

    I know five of them just off the top of my head. In my crappy small Midwestern city in the middle of nowhere.

  2. thedeti

    It’s funny, because what I’ve described as a “high value man” is practically the entry level now for men even in Christian circles.

    If you’re a man, and you don’t fit those criteria, you’re NEXTed immediately, from what I’m seeing and hearing. If you’re in church, and you don’t have every single one of those criteria, as well as being a believer and currently chaste, you are immediately and savagely disqualified from nearly all the women in that church.

  3. @ deti

    I’ve met a handful of men who have high earning jobs, but the only men I’ve ever met who I could tell make six figures are the fathers of 3 of the men that I’ve tried to get, but those men themselves didn’t make that much, none of which live in my neck of the woods. Maybe it’s just a location / cost of living difference. Where I come from, you don’t see six figures, not even in medical professions (I work as a pharmacy tech, and know of pharmacists that don’t make that much until at least a decade into the job). Heck, $40,000 a year here is considered very big bucks, and even less than that would be so in the town I grew up in.

    As for the other traits, I know of men who have some or all of those traits, sure.

  4. “You’ve never once in your life met a good looking, fit man with a high-earning job, some money, and who is socially adept and who has had sex with more than a few women?”

    I have to ask how does a christian woman come to know details of men’s sex lives?

  5. @ lgrobins

    I have to ask how does a christian woman come to know details of men’s sex lives?

    1) he offers up the info voluntarily
    2) you ask him and he answers
    3) he starts pushing for it and gets offended when you turn him down

  6. 3) he starts pushing for it and gets offended when you turn him down

    Was typing this in a hurry and didn’t get it right. Meant to say this:

    3) he starts pushing for it and gets offended when you turn him down, which means he almost certainly has done the same with others who might not have turned him down, telling you that he likely has a history

  7. Anonymous Reader

    lgrobins, cassie, I’m like … I duh-know, because after all women totally never, ever talk to each other about men or gossip about other women, nuh-uh. Not. Ever.

  8. Pingback: Selected Sunday Scriptures- #107 | Donal Graeme

  9. Pingback: Real life Ruths | Christianity and the manosphere

  10. Anonymous Reader

    This is so…cute.

  11. I’ve been quiet on the internet lately and normally don’t comment, but I have to disagree with this post.
    I think I understand the point at which you are trying to get at though.
    Still, the concept of women delaying marriage seems to defy nature…in a sense.
    Let me explain, women hold the keys to sex; men hold the keys to commitment. The problem is not that women are delaying marriage, it is that there are no incentives for men to marry. The idea of women directly delaying marriage doesn’t make sense. Women do want to get married, just later these days, but by that time men don’t want to marry them.
    But still, even in this case, men still hold the keys to commitment. They still make the choice in the end.

  12. Also, in terms of women making the first move, I recommend letting the man make the first move.
    I’m just speaking from experience, but the men who pursue you tend to be more interested and are more likely to take an initiative in the relationship. I’ve seen relationships where the women makes the first move and typically they are the ones leading the relationship, the guy gets kind of lazy. She is the one planning the dates, calling him, initiating physical contact, etc.

    Men have eyes. They notice attractive women. If he is bold enough and really wants to meet you, he will find a way to talk to you. Also, I read somewhere that more dominant men are actually turned off by women who make the first move vs. more submissive men.

    Now the problem is that men who do take the initiative are typically not Christian men. I’ve encountered high value men and who will approach me, but I have to turn them down because they are not Christian. And I will tell you that there are plenty of non-Christian high value men who are fine with waiting until marriage because at the end of the day most men want a chaste, feminine wife. They may not be the majority, but they aren’t a small population either.

    My $0.02

  13. @ Lovely

    I’ve been quiet on the internet lately and normally don’t comment, but I have to disagree with this post…

    The problem is not that women are delaying marriage, it is that there are no incentives for men to marry. The idea of women directly delaying marriage doesn’t make sense. Women do want to get married, just later these days, but by that time men don’t want to marry them.

    You do realize that you contradict yourself here, right? I am arguing women are delaying marriage, and you disagree with this, and then outright say women do, in fact, want to marry later.

    ???

  14. “The problem is not that women are delaying marriage, it is that there are no incentives for men to marry.”
    I can’t cosign that. Most girls in their twenties seem to be drawn to men who are *not* marriage-minded, while dismissing and ignoring the ones who are. She wastes her prime years on him, then when it all falls apart, she blames… men.

    “The idea of women directly delaying marriage doesn’t make sense.”
    It does, if women have been brainwashed into believing that they should spend their best years behaving like men, before “cashing out” and squeezing out a just-in-time kid or two so she can get her “Club Mommy” badge before her fertility window closes. Trouble is, it doesn’t always work out that way.

    “Women do want to get married, just later these days, but by that time men don’t want to marry them.”
    BINGO!!! DING! DING! DING! WE HAVE A WINNER! All too often, they hit thirty only to find that the men they want are chasing girls ten years younger. Cue the plaintive wail of “where have all the good men gone?!” And still nobody tells them the truth.

    “But still, even in this case, men still hold the keys to commitment. They still make the choice in the end.”
    Close but no cigar. If a 38-year-old man pursues a 20-year-old woman, all the girlies go “Eeeeew!”, even though both are in their MMV prime…

  15. If a 38-year-old man pursues a 20-year-old woman, all the girlies go “Eeeeew!”, even though both are in their MMV prime…

    That’s because it’s very rare for a 20 year old woman (or heck, a 20-anything year old woman for that matter) to be attracted to a 38 year old man. It’s as unlikely to happen as it is for a man to not care about a woman’s age. You guys keep telling yourselves that you’re at your most attractive time when you get old enough to be the father of the age cohort of women that you think are the most attractive, but you’re deluding yourselves. There are exceptions of course, but it’s very rare.

  16. feeriker

    That’s because it’s very rare for a 20 year old woman (or heck, a 20-anything year old woman for that matter) to be attracted to a 38 year old man. It’s as unlikely to happen as it is for a man to not care about a woman’s age.

    Cassie has obviously never spent any time outside of English-speaking North America (which is just as well).

  17. I don’t know of a woman who wants to get married in her thirties. Most women want to get married mid-twenties and for some men, that isn’t young enough.
    Women don’t provide men any incentives to get married so, in turn men don’t get married. Men have always controlled the pace and commitment of a relationship, not women.
    I’m not denying that there are some women who want to get married way later, but they are not as common as people make them out to be. And it still doesn’t explain the phenomenon of later marriage in almost all first-world countries across the globe.

  18. @Wizard Prang: I’m a twenty year old women and the idea of marrying a man 18 years older than me isn’t appealing. Sorry. I think there is more to it than just peer pressure. Women are attracted to men older than them, but not that much older.

  19. anonymous_ng

    Correct, twenty year old women in the US are seldom receptive to men in their thirties, but by twenty-three, quite a few are open to dating a man in his mid to late thirties depending. She won’t marry him of course, and if he can’t understand the rules of the arrangement and wants to get too serious, well then, she’ll be gone like the morning dew.

    As LLB7 said in a round about way, no woman imagines herself single at thirty, as a result, she won’t get serious about finding a husband until she’s probably twenty-six, and even then she’ll be looking at an age peer unless she happens to be in a rare situation where she interacts socially with very successful men in their late thirties. Then, if he has looks, status, money, etc, on his side, she will consider marriage.

  20. Pingback: What drives the delay in the marriage | Christianity and the manosphere

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