The Misery Of Too Much Comfort

[This post is a continuation of my post here. Consider this the equivalent of a Sunday Scripture post.]

For over a month I have been mulling something that I read over at 80 Proof Oinomancy:

See, one of the hardest things for “Nice Guys” to understand is this:

Healthy women like pain.


It’s a feature; not a bug.

If they didn’t, humanity would’ve died out, long ago.

[Birthing, being what it is, and kids being pains while breast-feeding, and all.

Chalk yet another one up for the Book of Genesis.]

The source was Ace’s post, “That’s why I cut you just to heal you.”  The whole post, short as it is, is worth reading in full (as Ace’s pretty much always are).

Since I read it oh so many weeks ago, I have been trying to formulate my own thoughts on what Ace is trying to describe. I definitely feel he is on to something here. I disagree about his use of the word pain, however. A more fitting word exists, in my opinion. To borrow from myself, it is not so much pain as suffering that is at play here. All pain is suffering, certainly, but not all suffering is pain. Suffering conveys the proper breadth of what is involved.

You see, healthy women “like” suffering.

I put quotations around like because it is not a conscious desire, but an unconscious one. Something deep down inside them recognizes that a certain amount of suffering is to be expected, is natural even. As Ace alludes to, this draws from Genesis:

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
    in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
    and he shall rule over you.”

(Genesis 3:16)

One consequence (among many) of Original Sin is that women will experience greater pain/suffering as a result of bearing and rearing children. I would argue that an expectation of this is “baked into” their genetics.

This leads us to the modern day, and the theory behind this post. The problem is that in the present age women are more coddled than they have ever been. They are, especially in the West and in families not at the bottom of the SES ladder, further removed from suffering than ever before. The level of comfort in the civilized world has never been higher. True suffering, true sacrifice, is alien to most women growing up. Most parents take care to keep their children from having to suffer, often by ensuring as much comfort as possible.

While I certainly understand this behavior on the part of parents, it is at the same time utter folly. Suffering can never really be escaped. It will always be present, and I will use a future post to go into that in further detail. What matters for this post is that this coddling approach is a disaster. Why?

Simple: Women expect suffering in their life- it is the natural thing. [Think about the vast majority of human history- filled with suffering for pretty much everyone.] When women are too comfortable, when suffering is absent from their life, then it sends a message to their unconscious mind that something is wrong, that what they are living is an unnatural life. That message of unnaturalness will only be repeated over the years as they grow up. They will know, somewhere deep down inside, that something is wrong. Unfortunately, because this is unconscious, they won’t know what it is, exactly, that is wrong.

This will, naturally enough, lead them to feel miserable. The misery is only made worse because they won’t understand it. It will gnaw on their mind incessantly, like an itch you can’t quite reach.

I suspect that part of the reason that women act so crazy in the west today is because of this. Using that itch analogy I just mentioned- women act crazy because they are trying to scratch that itch. Only they don’t quite know how- so they do so in extreme ways. Again, deep down inside they know they should be suffering, so they go out and make themselves suffer (without every truly understanding that is what they are doing).

Fixing our broken culture will take a lot (and perhaps cannot even be done at this point). But whether we fix it, or build a new one, I would argue that if we want it to be sustainable then we need that future to be far less comfortable.

[Feel free to have at me in the comments. Even with almost two months of thinking, this theory is still far rougher than I would like.]


Filed under Civilization, Femininity, Red Pill, State of Nature, Women

20 responses to “The Misery Of Too Much Comfort

  1. Women act crazy and on impulse because white knighting men have eliminated the consequences of most of their poor decisions. It is also a status exercise in the perennially fought feminist status hierarchy.

    Any suffering they may experience only enhances their status as victims in need or more attention, more support and a higher status amongst their competitors.

    You will never persuade me that women as a whole seek out self sacrifice and suffering. It’s goes against their preference for self preservation as the weaker sex, their avoidance of responsibility and the cultural support for easing the consequences of their poor decisions like single motherhood.

  2. 1 Timothy 2:15 comes to mind. That women would be “saved” through childbirth.

    I can see how being too comfortable can have such an impact on a woman. I was raised in such a way that I was very spoiled, coddled, sheltered (in some ways, at least), and experienced very little suffering (public school not withstanding). As a result, I was the definition of a “spoiled brat.” It took my Mom becoming terminally ill when I was finishing up high school to begin to shake me of that. Then she died, after which my Dad practically died with her, for all intents and purposes, before actually dying himself 4 years later. So I went pretty quickly from being a coddled little brat that didn’t have to deal with real life and real suffering, to a scared vulnerable girl who suffered much and had to figure out life and adulthood on my own. That made a huge difference in my personality and character, and did so VERY quickly. So I can personally attest to this post being pretty likely to be spot on.

  3. Like you Cassie, I don’t know a whole lot about prolonged comfort. Even from childhood. But I think the gist of this post knocks on the door truth.

  4. I know a couple of women who seem to have lived charmed lives. I know them well but is completely hard to relate to them. They appear to have successfully dodged tragedy but I cannot fell their characters.

  5. Pingback: Entitlement mentality | Christianity and the manosphere

  6. Posted some thoughts on how I think it’s more entitlement mentality more than simply an aspect of where ‘women like pain/suffering’

  7. @ an observer

    You will never persuade me that women as a whole seek out self sacrifice and suffering.

    Two things. First, I never said that women seek out self-sacrifice. Quite the opposite, in fact. Women (just like men) need to be trained/reared to act in a selfless manner. Second, as for seeking suffering, this is an unconscious behavior. It isn’t even necessarily direct. They might pursue actions that lead to them suffering, unaware that the “need” for it is what drives them.

  8. A Visitor

    It sounds like he’s advocating Dread game on the post.

    “True suffering, true sacrifice, is alien to most women growing up. Most parents take care to keep their children from having to suffer, often by ensuring as much comfort as possible.”

    If technology and economic progress are any indicators, it’ll be a smaller set of women that experience that with each passing year, not just in the West, but writ large across the world. One could argue that it is a good thing. OTOH it leads to very entitled, spoiled bratty women. Unfortunately, within my family I have firsthand proof of the aforementioned.

    “Fixing our broken culture will take a lot (and perhaps cannot even be done at this point). But whether we fix it, or build a new one, I would argue that if we want it to be sustainable then we need that future to be far less comfortable.”

    This has me thinking. Just as an example here, there are several soft targets the Islamic State could hit over the coming months. Now, stay with me on this: if they time them to inflict maximum psychological damage AND physical damage, it would cause a temporary reversion of the current trend of comfort we see. NO, I’M NOT ADVOCATING ANY ATTACK! Just had to throw that out there. Combine the threat of IS (as it certainly is not going away before the new President is inaugurated) and increasing levels of immigration along with normal crime and you’ll probably see more demands of increased security which will lead to increased comfort. Buckle up as it’ll be an interesting ride into the formative decades of the 21st century.

  9. Chesterton said: “Women are the only realists. Their whole object in life is to pit their realism against the extravagant, excessive and occasionally drunken idealism of men.”

    I think he’s getting at the same idea, but is going possibly one step milder than “suffering,” which is a step milder than “pain.” One could say women like reality or at least they desire reality. Men would rather optimize.

  10. Oh well, it won’t post. It was what I thought was a good example of men’s idealizing. It’s “Bailando” by Enrique Iglesias.

  11. I was gonna bring up I Tim 2:15, but I see Cassie beat me to it. St. Paul seems to be making a direct commentary on Gen 3. A revelation that banishment from Eden and the curses of the Garden were in fact graces, ultimately revealed in Christ.

    I am convinced that all suffering is redemptive (yes, even Hell in its own unique way). It’s not something we should necessarily run toward, but trying too hard to run away from it messes us up. And messes the whole of society up.

  12. Pingback: The Very Best of Last Week in Reaction (2016/04/10) – The Reactivity Place

  13. Donal,

    Once more, you are the Gould to my Bach.

    [A fact for which I remain exceedingly and sincerely grateful.]

    I agree.

    Suffering is a much better word.

    For which I am only too happy to credit you.

    But, as you kindly point out (if you’ll forgive my following immodesty):

    The rest is mine.

  14. Ace,

    Thank you.

    As always, I try to explain your thoughts to those who have difficulty with your distilled writing style.

  15. Pingback: Avoiding Sacrifice | Donal Graeme

  16. Pingback: The Necessity Of Suffering | Donal Graeme

  17. seeking knowledge

    I have a couple of concerns with this post…
    One is that you made several statements that I feel could be applied equally to both men and women, but you applied them only to women. I’m sure you would agree that both boys and girls are overly coddled these days, that true suffering and sacrifice are generally alien to both, and that both men and women act crazy in the west today…
    The second is that I think it’s going too far, to posit that since most women want babies in spite of the pain involved in giving birth to them and raising them, that women must subconsciously *like* that pain/suffering… Isn’t it possible that women simply appreciate the whole package of suffering+good that often comes together? If there’s a difference between men and women, I can see it in how much importance and value they tend to place on childrearing, but I don’t see a gender difference in drug use and other such self-destructive behaviors (which, if I understood you correctly, you seem to be theorizing might be caused by an itch for suffering, caused in turn by an unnatural absence of suffering in the person’s life). I can go along with that theory as far as saying maybe people have an itch for healthy discipline that they try to scratch by testing how far they can go without experiencing negative consequences…but I do think that applies equally to both men and women (well, adolescents anyway).
    Why does it matter you might ask? Why bother making this comment? Well, my fear is that some readers might misuse the sound bite “healthy women like suffering”, even with all the qualifications you mentioned about this not meaning abuse, to excuse mildly selfish behavior as long as they don’t think it constitutes abuse…because if women expect more suffering than men do, then an imbalance in actual suffering experienced doesn’t seem so bad, right? That’s what I’m concerned some people might take away from the post.

  18. Pingback: Random Thought on Hardship/Suffering | Donal Graeme

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