Too Much Of A Good Thing? #1

I’ve a bit of a random question for my readers. Specifically, the Christian men.

Have you ever turned down or rejected a Christian woman because she was more devout or righteous than you?

I’m not talking about her being self-righteous, or possessing a false piety like the Pharisees. I mean real God-fearing devotion.

A similar, but ultimately different question is this:

Have you ever turned down or rejected a Christian woman because you thought she was too good for you?

I’m curious what my readers have to say on the subject.

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28 Comments

Filed under Christianity, Courtship, Men, Women

28 responses to “Too Much Of A Good Thing? #1

  1. Nope.

    Although I could see how some men could if they’re not as far along in the faith. I think it’s a general visceral reaction to ‘feeling’ like you can’t lead a woman who is [seemingly] more mature in the faith.

    On the other side of the coin, from the women I’ve talked to about this as well they definitely do not want to ‘date down’ to a more spiritually immature man. Call it spiritual hypergamy or whatever you want to.

  2. Was an invol cel for a long time so there weren’t any Christian women who were sufficiently attracted to me. So, my answer is no.

  3. Paul

    I used to think that way when I was blue pill. I wouldn’t turn them down, they never stood a chance even if they wanted to, because I would of misread their interest.

    The last few years since I red pilled, I have gone completely the other way, looking very critically at women and rejecting all of them.

    I am chilling out a bit now, and generally do not think in terms of comparing myself to anyone else’s faith. We just do not know the reasons for them doing what they do. To make that judgement would be too much. It is more about Podvig. How will I make to heaven? In the married state or the single state? Is this person “X” the one to journey with me to heaven or not?

    TL:DR – We don’t really know if she is more righteous or not.

  4. No.

    One of the reasons was some of the half-serious-in-their-faith gals often used spiritual devotion as overcompensation for other perceived deficiencies. Inverted pride, if you will.

    Some of them overcame this by getting over themselves, putting aside their pseudo busyness and getting married. Some did not.

    But one of the other reasons was that such women typically had specific criteria in mind that I simply didn’t meet, usually involving guys with ministry specific giftings I lack(ed).

    Such women had no interest in nerdy young men that thought too much.

  5. A Visitor

    “On the other side of the coin, from the women I’ve talked to about this as well they definitely do not want to ‘date down’ to a more spiritually immature man. Call it spiritual hypergamy or whatever you want to.”

    @DS, spiritual hypergamy…that’s a good one.

    Donal, can’t say that I have. Then again I’ve just had trouble generally speaking finding devout ones that were interested in me. Heh.

  6. No.

    Maybe it’s me, but I couldn’t imagine a woman “too pure” that I would do so. The holier a woman gets, the more unassuming and normal she’ll be. The more like a quiet, humble Mary. She will bring spiritual life to your children, beyond the mere physical, and comes as a willing helpmeet.

    My fiance is ahead of me in a few areas, specifically daily prayers and innocence before God. So I lead her there specifically by telling her what to pray for, meditate on, and direct her spiritual reading. She may be stronger than me there, but it requires a MORE directed leadership in those areas, not less. Always follow it up and include those in daily conversation so that she can spread the fruits of her labors while you lead her

  7. richard

    My this post is too well timed.

    Im 34 almost 35 white mostly italian and irish. Never married engaged once.

    Ok here is the dilemma. I meet a girl when i 16 she was 17. We will call her gloria. Gloria came to America illegally at that age with her sister who had papers. I know red flags are standing at attention right now. I met her via my dad and wow did he know how to pick them. Gloria was feminine and bubbly. Couldn’t hardly speak english taught her a few words and we would sit there and try talking which would always make us laugh since she would butcher English but atleast she tried. During that time i learned she was here to take care of her dying aunt. The aunt passed gloria and her sister stayed. I ende up giving her her first kiss or so she says. It is believable since she was scared and kissing a wall would have produced better results. After high school i lost contact with her.

    Ok fast forward a few years. I got out of the navy was in a ltr and realized this woman i was with was too much like her mother. I dumped her softly since realizing she was crazy and might go homicidal or suicidal. A few days later i just so happen to run into gloria at her work. She done swapped jobs so i wasn’t expecting her there. We immediately hit it off. Im not one to usually jump out of the skillet and into the frying but glorias demeanour and tapatia eyes got the better of me. We dated for about a month. It was great. I learned even though she wasn’t here legally but she was paying her taxes and being more productive to our country than fat feminists. Everything was going well untill the woman(Stephanie) that i dumped called me to tell me she was pregnant. Catch 22. Now i was around 23 and devastated. What to do, well i ghosted gloria and went back to steph untill a month or two went by and i realized she lied. I was even more devestated. At that point a few years went by i was playing the field and drinkinking like a fish. Then i meet tabith. A raven hair southern belle. Men don’t date southern belles. We dated for a year or so and were up each others bums alot. Tabitha is also the one that murdered my child unless she pulled a quickey with tom,dick,and harry. I begged her not to do it when i learned from her coworker that she was wanting an abortion. She had it done the next day. I tried everything talked marriage, me getting full rights to the child and id cover all the pregnancy expenses(my dad was a single father so if he could do it with me i know i could do it also),etc…. More devestation, now i embodied a dark sinister view of women and went into the bottle more. Guess who I ran into a half a year later. Yep Gloria. This time however we dated two years. Unfortunately i didn’t realize how jade I had become. Gloria got back into the rcc and was very devout. So much so eveyone knew she was saving her self for marriage. Everything was well but i was still hurt and bitter from Tabitha, Gloria knew id go out drinking and clubbing and knew i had a friend with benefits. She was fine with that since she was saving herself. The only thing she asked of me was to keep it private. Ok great and i did keep it private, untill i kept on drinking and one night i went out with a buddy who was shipping out the next day. Well i got so drunk i dont remember much but apparently i basically dry humped a skank on the dance floor . Unfortunately glorias work had an outing and everyone saw the crap i was doing. Needless to say our relationship took a nose dive for the next few months till we split. This time i was trying to get her back to no avail.

    Ok now a few years passed im with Heather. Heather is living with me. Things are going good. Untill i start reading the bible, prophecy websites, etc…. I find the manosphere. Heather has now become parasitic and she is booted out. Now ive taken much needed down time im 30 when we split. Work on my house,guitar,working out,etc…

    A few years pass till im 32 a note is on my mailbox from gloria.we meet for coffee go on a date but im not at a point where i want to date. I immerse myself into work, reading,etc….. Ive calmed down alot but i realize marriage in America is a sham guess all those married women hitting on my Friend and me put a bad taste in my mouth. Im now reading more and realize we are at war Christianity vs islam….. Yes i hold the view that islam is the religion that births the Antichrist.

    Gloria recently came to me we went out on a few dates. She is now 35 and still bubbly, feminine, devout, and looking for marriage to me and some babinos. Me i am at the point of preparing myself for the last crusade but the want to have a family tugs at my inner being strongly. Im not talking to her at the moment because even though i believe she is sincere ive allowed myself to be burned too many times. And now that she is 35 i know she knows her time is short to have a child. So after allowing myself to get burned by others and finding the sweet yet bitter taste of the red pill i see her coming to me in desperation but i dont know if that is a skewed view or me being stupid or wise. She like i said is very devout prays every time she eats, sets aside time to read her bible,mass two times a week atleast, charity, humble. Im really trying to make sure im making the right decision . She has every good attribute of a Godly woman and i dont mean this modern feel good Christianity where the woman rules the roost.

    This is real. Im looking for answers. Please dissect this and help. I dont want to pass a good thing up but im at a loss of discerning motives on this one. Is this me? Is this the devil whisper ing to me to keep happiness of having a family from me. I dont know. Only mature men that are Christian please respond, no college kids.

    Thanks Richard

  8. No.

    I hold strongly with Lewis (and Chad, for that matter) that as one gets more righteous, they don’t get similarly more weird. The reason Christ comes off as kind of weird sometimes in the accounts of His life is that He had a different mission.

    Have I not pursued a girl because of some temporary, accidental side effect of righteousness? Probbably, but causes are so hard to trace.

    Have I ever been less attractive than I might be as a temporary/accidental side effect of trying to obey God? Definitely. Do I regret trying? Absolutely not.

    Only way out is through; what is needed is more righteousness, not less. Or, to put it better: what is needed is to be closer to God’s will, not further.

  9. Also:I have I have ever rejected a girl who was too good for me, whether I knew it or not? Probably.

  10. No, but in my 20s I banged 3-4 girls who explained to me either before or after sex that they were ‘devout’ christians and then proceeded to encourage me to go to church with them.

    You should probably read this:
    http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/08/chasing-amy/

  11. “Have you ever turned down or rejected a Christian woman because she was more devout or righteous than you?

    “I’m not talking about her being self-righteous, or possessing a false piety like the Pharisees. I mean real God-fearing devotion.”

    Yes, once. I turned her down because she wouldn’t have sex with me. She claimed it was because she was saving herself for marriage. It could be, however, because I wasn’t attractive enough for her.

  12. Coastal

    No on both accounts.

    I’m with Chad on this one, a truly spiritually mature woman would have a gentle, quiet spirit. I’ve opted not to pursue women that were spiritually immature (i.e. just showing up to church but not actively reading the word or praying), but never the opposite. Now if it’s a case where a woman is taking on traits of biblical masculinity as opposed to femininity, then yes, I probably wouldn’t be attracted to her. It’s in the same vein of Christian women not being attracted to “Christian Nice Guys”.

  13. Taylor

    Never on both.

    I have enough trouble with social club church girls and ones who are very devout to Book of Oprah relationship bromides. I posit devout to mean following God at the expense of fitting into fallen church culture.

    In my younger years I definitely refrained from asking out girls that were way out of my league. I can’t put my head around “too good for you” at the moment. If she’s single, pretty, feminine and seriously following God, I’m chatting her up to see if there’s any spark there. The Bible made clear the playing field is level. Abigail married a king, and Ruth married Boaz.

    What on earth does “too good for” mean for a disciple of Christ?

  14. Michael Kozaki

    Rollo,

    I didn’t repost this story as some indictment of Christian culture, but rather as an example of how plugged-in men develop idealization of their “Quality Woman.” Neither am I trying to convince anyone that “all women are sluts, never trust them.” Your sweet little virgin wants to fuck, and your whore still wants to be a soccer mom.

    Catholic theology (somewhat) agrees with your linked post:
    1) All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
    2) Whores, made in the image of God, desire real, self-sacrificial love.
    3) Sex is a great thing within sacramental (non-breakable) marriage.

    Where we prob disagree: Sex, family, and kids cannot be separated without it eventually going stale. Sex is not some evil thing at all; that’s man’s imprint on it. The gift is too big and man wants to shrink it down; the co-creation of an immoral soul is a crazy idea. We want something less. This is why non-traditional Christians so often fear and distrust sex and agnostics who ignore/deny the immortal soul remain forever confused, and both have all sorts of sexual hang-ups. Trying to have sex like mere animals doesn’t work well because we are more than animals and have deeper emotional and spiritual needs.

    Where we also probably disagree (most modern Christians reject the traditional faith): Christians can become holy and perfect through spiritual discipline and the sacraments. In fact, if it doesn’t happen in this life it must happen in purgatory (much more difficult without a body). And clearly sex with a holy spouse is a million times better than otherwise.

    So the goal to obtain a Christian “Quality Woman” is not hopeless nor is every woman “somewhere in-between”. Rather, spiritual perfection is the goal and within every woman’s reach. And the younger, the better. Fully rooted in love, and what she can give to others: God, husband, children neighbor is a “Quality Woman”. A well-known example of said perfection would be Mother Theresa.

  15. @ Visitor

    Then again I’ve just had trouble generally speaking finding devout ones that were interested in me. Heh.

    I know what you mean. Thinking on it, I can’t say that I can think of any Catholic women who I knew to be at or above my level of devotion who weren’t/aren’t married, in the process of getting married or nuns. I concede I am perhaps giving myself too much credit when it comes to my own devotion, but I base it in part on what others have said.

    @ Chad

    Maybe it’s me, but I couldn’t imagine a woman “too pure” that I would do so. The holier a woman gets, the more unassuming and normal she’ll be. The more like a quiet, humble Mary. She will bring spiritual life to your children, beyond the mere physical, and comes as a willing helpmeet.

    It isn’t just you. Your thoughts mirror mine.

    @ Rollo

    Those girls were white-washed tombs.

    In case it isn’t clear, I don’t believe in the whole “too good for me” schtick. That is simply effeminate thinking.

    @ Deti

    Yes, once. I turned her down because she wouldn’t have sex with me. She claimed it was because she was saving herself for marriage. It could be, however, because I wasn’t attractive enough for her.

    I was wondering when someone would mention chastity as a reason. I must ask though, what makes you say you might not have been attractive enough for her. Did she “give it up” to other, more attractive men? I wonder if she was talking about marriage, and you simply balked.

  16. she was saving herself for marriage

    Lol. For the n’th time after not doing so. Of course she gave it up to other more manly men (the pregnancy whilst single was a give-away). But church teaches boys to be nice men, that simply aren’t attractive to women.
    The problem then becomes imparting manliness without being cast as a subversive.

  17. wonder if she was talking about marriage, and you simply balked.

    Imho, the only girls that talked seriously about marriage were wanting a baby, not a husband.

    Much of the superficial chatter was cast in hypothetical terms, described character qualities (the 463 bullet point list) and made it abundantly clear it was with some theoretical other hyper achieving man.

  18. Observer, Deti and Rollo
    I do not deny that there are a great deal of physically attractive, walking death traps of women with martyrdom by sexual appeasement complexes. Nor do I deny that all women feel temptations towards sexual display, activity, and general destruction of themselves along with any other soul they can grasp.

    As Donal says, such women are white washed tombs.

    I believe he is referring to women who could just as easily become a nun as a mother of 10. The quiet woman who keeps her head covered and would rather be praying than sin by spending time with poor company.

    Such women are rare, and ever more so these days. Plus, they generally come with other issues – an overbearing father, desires for adventure and travel over family life, etc. But, in traditional communities, they exist.

    Nor have I ever seen any man feel they are ‘too holy’ for the man – though the woman may think so. In all cases, she shows the exact opposite in turning away from solid potential husbands. As of now, I only know three or four women that would meet my qualifications as a good spouse, out of about a hundred active in the Tulsa diocese, and I’m engaged to one of those.

    But, they all dress modestly, have good friends, have men to keep them in line, and wouldn’t be caught doing anything like dating unsupervised. Each could likely become a nun if they wanted, but show active desires for marriage while pursuing the skillsets that would make a good SAHM of ten home schooled children.

    These are the things the modern world is baffled by, as Rollo at least, has said. But the women described, while they may say they are Christian, are certainly not pursuing Christ.

  19. @ Deti

    This thought struck me as I was working and finishing the previous comment

    Your situation, as described, is not “turning down a woman because she’s too holy.” If you turn down a woman because she doesn’t want to sin and fornicate with you, it is you realizing you don’t want a woman that is actually holy and stays to it. It is you saying that the cost to obtain Calvary is too high, and a rejection of Christ.

    It is not a pursuit of him or his teaching. It is a pursuit of the self as your own god by declaring thyself a knower of good and evil. It is the same as Adam giving into Eve for her human companionship over that of God’s. The sad part is that God calls us to actual companionship on a real level, as two souls able to take part in creating immortal souls, in marriage.

    Any man or woman rejecting that for a distorted sin of their own making is leading themselves to despair.

    And anyone in pursuit of the death of self atop Calvary is always happy to have company on the journey. Man or woman, there is no one “too holy” to think two new trails of bloody footsteps up the mount, in pursuit of the God who left the original, is something to mock or turn away from.

    Singing hymns, the married couple go together in search of God.

  20. @ Donal:

    “I was wondering when someone would mention chastity as a reason. I must ask though, what makes you say you might not have been attractive enough for her. Did she “give it up” to other, more attractive men? I wonder if she was talking about marriage, and you simply balked.”

    She was saving intercourse, not other things. This woman was willing to engage in some sex acts short of intercourse. I don’t know if she did go further with more attractive men. I also am pretty sure I wasn’t all that attractive at the time.

    [DG: Thanks for clarifying Deti. Yet another white washed tomb. Only one who had an even sparklier paint job.]

  21. “Your situation, as described, is not “turning down a woman because she’s too holy.” If you turn down a woman because she doesn’t want to sin and fornicate with you, it is you realizing you don’t want a woman that is actually holy and stays to it. It is you saying that the cost to obtain Calvary is too high, and a rejection of Christ.”

    Yes, of course. It was turning down a woman because I wasn’t going to get what I wanted; or would have to wait to get what I wanted, or would have to give up/compromise too much to get what I wanted.

  22. Michael Kozaki

    Observer,

    the only girls that talked seriously about marriage were wanting a baby, not a husband

    Very true. Women separate sex and children from family today, just like men do. See: birth control.

  23. Michael Kozaki

    Chad,

    If you turn down a woman because she doesn’t want to sin and fornicate with you, it is you realizing you don’t want a woman that is actually holy.

    This is the money quote of the whole discussion. Very few (men or women) really want to be holy. They demand God on their terms. They want to interpret the bible to their own liking, or define whatever morality they have for themselves…then find a spouse that will follow them. Crazy.

    They do NOT want? A spouse (or deity) that forces them to be holy. No, they want a spouse (and deity) with all the beautiful virtues while still allowing themselves to be gluttonous, lazy, selfish, out-of-shape, sexually deviant, disobedient to religious authority (or even denying it authority altogether aka Protestantism), etc. The whole thing would be tragically funny if people’s lives and souls weren’t being ruined.

  24. Pedat Ebediyah

    Only once, and not because she was more devout or Holy than I was, but because I was wounded and healing from my divorce and…I was completely and utterly broken.

    She, without trying I think, was everything I had always wanted and hoped for in a Christian woman.

    Not only was she on my level, as far as intensity and love for the Lord was concerned, she was also a rich, brilliant, attractive, woman who came from a close knit family of Christians who were very well known in AOG denomination.

    With me having come from a poor family, and humble beginnings, I will say that her pedigree would have been the most intimidating thing about her…

  25. Donal,
    Have been turned down by women who felt dating and potential family life was a less honourable/spiritual pursuit than bible college, ministry works etc.
    Its a difficult situation to explain, and most women won’t acknowledge the risks of delaying marriage.

  26. SapphireYagami

    Gloria sounds like a nice girl and would make a good wife,but with what you said about your past. Its gonna take time for you you to heal before you think about a relationship especially marriage.

  27. Pingback: Too Much Of A Good Thing? #1 — Donal Graeme – Rina Rose

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