Yet More Random Musings And Links

It has been a while since I wrote one of these posts, so here goes.

Deep Strength has a good post up examining how men approach marriage and responsibility. His focus is on Incentives. I introduced a comment where I suggested that there is another way to look at why men are apprehensive (to say the least) about marriage. The basic idea I was grasping at is this:

We, each of us, have the natural law instilled in us. This is an echo of the divine law. This sense of the natural law is offended by things which are against the Order of Things- against what God intended. Many men (especially Christian men) are wary of marriage, and even shunning it, because this sense of the natural law in them realizes that marriage has become something unnatural. It has deviated from what God intended, and that echo of the Divine Law within us is repulsed by this. Society has to actively work to overcome this sense of revulsion, hence all of the “Man Up and Marry” efforts.

Over at Dalrock’s, a commenter calling himself The Question wrote the following comment, which I am posting in its entirety:

I want to be angry at Walsh for his foolishness, but when I look at him I can’t help but see myself – had things turned out differently. He is exactly what I wanted to be in my early twenties; married, a couple kids, good writing gig, a house. Just another good middle class WASP.

Instead, I like so many others went through something similar to that of Rollo Tomassi as he described in his post “That Was Then.”

The biggest unspoken lie perpetuated in the man up movement by inference is that women want to get married young, so if a man can’t get a wife in college it’s his fault because he’s immature and that’s why the women flock in droves to ride the carousal with Harley McBadboy. Go to any university and ask the typical 21-year-old coed if they want to get married. Chances are, they’ll say yes. Then ask them what age. It’ll be 28-30. There will be a handful that want to get married then and they will easily find a man. The rest want to earn their feminist merit badges and then when they enter the epiphany phase they’ll find that nice guy beta provider who has been dutifully working in the meantime and conveniently hears he needs to “man up” and marry her.

What makes columns like Walsh’s so infuriating is that these writers think that they were able to marry because, unlike us, they are wise-beyond-their-years. In reality, much of it is a matter of meeting the right person at the right time in the right place. I know men just like him who got married young and it’s no different with them in terms of their attitude toward bachelors. Anything I say about what is discussed here or other manosphere sites is dismissed with “Stop complaining. Look at me; I got married, so you should be more like me if you want to get married.” It makes them feel superior. They don’t realize they only married because they met a girl who wanted to as well (just pray she doesn’t decided to make up for missing out).

I’m sure Rollo would say the same thing as what I’m about to say, but Walsh’s problem is the same as Mark Driscoll’s when it comes to his views on sex, marriage, women, what not; they got married young and don’t know anything else beyond their own unique life experience and are oblivious to the world of dating since they got off the market. He is also unable to define masculinity and manhood outside of the feminine. You’re not a complete man until you have made a lifetime commitment to a woman.

Having gone a separate route has been tough at times, no doubt, but had I married before taking the Red Pill it would have been a disaster. Among other things, I would have read Walsh’s article and said “Amen!” instead of posting a link to it here with indignation.

I could have, and probably have at some point, written a comment that was almost exactly the same. Certainly I completely understand where he is coming from. There is a massive disconnect between most Christian men who are married, and those who aren’t. Fortunately, not all married Christian men are like that. There are several married men at my parish who are far more aware than men like this Walsh character.

I remember being in a conversation with one of them a few weeks back where he acknowledged how lucky he was to have found his wife. She wanted to marry young and have a lot of kids- which has since happened. He recognizes now how rare that was back then, and how much rarer it is today. His is a sympathetic ear.

One thing I haven’t experienced at that parish, and don’t expect to, is to hear a “Man Up and Marry” homily (sermon). My current priest is not a type who seems inclined to do anything of the sort (very traditional/Traditional fellow). Nor have any visiting priests done anything of the sort (benefits of attending an Eastern Catholic parish, I suppose). In fact, one visiting priest gave me the opposite as advice. He told me not to marry unless I could find a good woman to do so with. If I couldn’t, I should continue on doing what I was doing.

Zippy had a post up recently addressing the concept of “the same God.” Worth a read.

I disagree with several of Rollo’s conclusions, but I agree with the main point in the post Women Improving Men:

“[W]omen, Red Pill or otherwise will never be honest arbiter of ‘improving’ men’s states of masculinity.”

Masculinity, and men improving themselves, is a purely male endeavor. We must keep that in mind, otherwise we will keep repeating Adam’s error in the Garden.

I think this post over at Finer Femininity should be required reading for all married women.

Over at AlphaGame there is an interesting series on “Gamma” Protaganists by someone calling himself Delta Man. While I don’t necessarily agree with Vox’s supposed hierarchy, I think that the series does expose some of the absurdity in Sci-Fi literature. Here is part 1, part 2 and part 3. I don’t read nearly as many books these days for a variety of reasons, but one of them is because I can now recognize a lot of “Blue Pill” nonsense that puts me off from enjoying the work.


That is all for now.



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7 responses to “Yet More Random Musings And Links

  1. Michael Kozaki

    Really good post. Lots to reply to.

    The reason why the incentives are based in roles is because roles define the position.

    Well, roles/positions only exist if each person agrees on their role. Today, people want the flexibility to define their own roles. Because freedom. Ideas have consequences.


    : I’ve never cared. Call me egotistical, but my self-esteem will never depend on respect. Especially a woman’s.

    Head of household

    : Christian family is organized God >Church >Husband >Wife >Children. Why would kids/wife respect a “head of household” who doesn’t respect the authority of a Church? God is a clever dude to make the punishment of disobedience match the sin. I’ve never seen disobedient women among families following a fixed religious authority.

    Be fruitful and multiply

    : Men today don’t want to be fruitful. Not on God’s terms. How many sermons this Sunday preached on the sin of birth control? Near zero. Out of fashion since the 1800’s (even codified by Anglicans in 1930). Well, the father-as-head fell out of fashion around that time too. So Muslims. Sow, reap.

  2. Michael Kozaki

    One thing I haven’t experienced at that parish, and don’t expect to, is to hear a “Man Up and Marry” homily (sermon).

    You know, I’ve never heard this fabled “man up” sermon (in say 2,000+ sermons; lots of bad parishes & heresy though). Have heard a few laments on the decline of marriage and children, but seemed more for women than men. Wish I had heard a man up sermon so I could have laughed my ass off. Wonder if if it’s a east-coast vs west-coast thing, or a north vs south. As one goes further west there are less expectations on men I think (Chivalry seems more a Southern thing). Or maybe priests are terrified they might drive out the few young men under 45?

    It think most pastors who hear confessions aren’t stupid enough to not grasp that women are the primary reason for lack of marriage today. But as women start to wake up to the decline of available men they will prob start to panic and whine and then I will prob start to hear “man up” sermons. Beta men won’t continue to be stupid forever.

  3. Michael,

    I too have never heard a “Man Up” sermon. Or at least, I can’t remember hearing one- I rather imagine I would have tuned it out. My suspicion is that it is mostly a Prot thing. Perhaps because the homilies in Catholic Churches are normally given by a celibate priest?

  4. It is highly prevalent in protestant churches. Very much so. They’re good at finding a way to insert that in almost every week.

  5. Michael Kozaki

    Cassie, are you US? East, west, south, or central? How does it go down? Does the pastor bash, beg, tease, or shame? I’m really amazed at this. I was under the (clearly false) impression Protestant pastors have to cater to their flock, or the flock just goes next door. Don’t Protestants need to keep men coming to put cash in the collection plate? Or are most of the men on board? Or just not making any money and can be ignored? I always envied Protestants that they could just pack up and go when the pastor gets crazy.

    And hey, you haven’t posted in forever on your blog! I’m waiting patiently…

  6. KP


    I always envied Protestants that they could just pack up and go when the pastor gets crazy.

    Unless you’re in a very remote area, surely you can start attending a church in a different parish? Or move to an Eastern Rite parish? Etc…?

  7. Michael Kozaki


    Unless you’re in a very remote area, surely you can start attending a church in a different parish? Or move to an Eastern Rite parish? Etc…?

    1) We are supposed to stay within our geographical boundaries.
    2) If you have a lousy bishop, most of the churches will be poor.
    3) Easter Rite parishes of often poor as well (I’ve attended both).

    I just ignore 1) since my bishop don’t care. But because of 2) and 3) and I’m also pretty rural most of the time.

    The real thing that Prots have going for them is competition. A RC priest doesn’t have to give a sh*t. Now, that’s great for keeping doctrine “on paper” good; Catholics have done a great job doing that on unpopular issues (say, divorce and birth control, that Easterns and Prots have caved on). But it also creates an environment where the pastors don’t have to cater to the flock at all, nor care much about the numbers (they’ve taken a vow of poverty, so it won’t impact them personally at all). Prots can’t get away with that attitude, or people just leave and the pastor starves.

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