Filtering For Non-Compliance *Men Only*

[This is the first of my dual or split posts, one for male commenters and one for female commenters. As noted earlier, this is something of an experiment. Further, I used a less than stellar post to test everything out. This particular post is for the men. The next one will be for women.]

In my post Good Guy’s Don’t Exist, commenter Maea related stories she had heard first hand from women who had tried online dating. In particular, that if they explained they were “waiting for marriage” men would call them “prudes.” She later clarified her earlier statement with this:

I believe it’s Catholic Match that has a 5-question litmus test. One of the questions pertains to maintaining chastity until marriage. The answers are yes or no. I’ve talked to people IRL who’ve reported difficulty in getting dates when all of their responses are in line with Catholic teaching.

That is, unless they are really, really good looking. But usually their respondent is the same.

At first, I had wondered how often this occurs. However, what I would like to explore with this post is not so much the frequency of that particular behavior but the reason for it. [I have addressed the final point in her comment before, and might do so again at some point. For the moment it is outside the scope of this post.]

I am curious why men would look at a Christian dating/marriage site (and a Catholic one focused on marriage in particular) and seek women who wouldn’t live up to Christian standards of conduct. Or, if finding those who did, would try and shame them for it. While Maea was talking only about Catholic Match, I would expect to see this behavior elsewhere, and so would include this post to cover all nominally Christian dating/marriage sites.

I can understand the desire for sex certainly, but why would they look towards a Christian dating site for that? Wouldn’t a secular one be a better choice? Assuming, of course, they are only interested in sex. If they are looking for more and actually want to get married, that again raises the question of why they are going about it that way. I guess what bothers me is this: why would you go on to a site which is supposedly for people with certain values, and then seek those without such values, and attack those who do? Otherwise stated, why marry a woman who only purports to be Christian, or is only a “so-so” Christian?

Here are a few things that I have thought of, so far (in no particular order and not mutually exclusive):

  • This behavior is mostly irrational. The men who do this aren’t really thinking through the inherent hypocrisy. It really isn’t conscious rationalization but habit, borne out of living essentially secular lives in a secular age.
  • These men don’t mind marrying “so-so” Christian women because they themselves are “so-so” Christian men. They don’t see any contradiction in their actions because they pick and choose what to believe. In the Catholic Church these kinds of people are called “Cafeteria Catholics.” I suppose “Buffet Christians” would also work.
  • For whatever reason these men feel they need to marry a Christian woman, but of course don’t want to actually carry out a proper courtship process. Perhaps their family expects its. Or maybe they think they would make better mothers or something.
  • Related to that, perhaps these men think that such a woman represents a lesser divorce threat to them. For Catholic Match in particular, men who “call out” women as “prudes” are perhaps hoping to find women who might sleep with them before the “I do” but won’t divorce them.
  • Lets not forget the effects of Original Sin, of course. Concupiscence is a constant thorn in our side, and one finds its way into the recesses of our mind quite easily. Given the power of the male sex drive, making excuses for it is relatively easy. So setting aside one particular part of teaching/doctrine wouldn’t be intellectually trying.
  • They could also be caught up in the whole “try before you buy” mentality that is quite prevalent right now. Of course, that mentality isn’t a new one, but this age certainly is embroiled in it.

I invite my male readers to offer their own thoughts on what might be involved here.

*Again, this post is for male commenters only. Violating comments will be deleted.*

 

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16 Comments

Filed under Christianity, Churchianity, Courtship, Marriage, Marriage Market Place, Moral Agency, Red Pill, Sex, Sin, The Church, Women

16 responses to “Filtering For Non-Compliance *Men Only*

  1. Note: I won’t be able to check this post constantly, so if there are any offending comments, ignore them. I will address them in due course.

  2. theshadowedknight

    I suspect that it is mostly the unexamined expectations and assumptions they bring into looking for a girlfriend. The women at church have sex before they marry, and so does everyone else. Men never really put that much thought into it; men are looking to have sex, not avoid it.

    The Shadowed Knight

  3. @ TSK

    Yes, a “spirit of the Age” kind of thing. And your last sentence encapsulates what I was trying to say better than I expressed it.

  4. I wonder if there is some subconscious or conscious guilt management going on. You’re looking to sin, even if you don’t admit to yourself you know that it’s sin, but that bothers you less when you’re on an explicitly Christian dating site. It’s like looking for porn in places that aren’t specifically for porn.

  5. Scott

    I will just agree and amplify what has been said by TSK. Your first two possible observations as to the “why” are the cause of 99% of it.

    I will be honest here–I found Mychael on “Conservative” match and she was also on Catholic Match.

    I was doing the standard, American serial monogamy/dating thing. If I would have received even the slightest inclination that she was “saving herself” I would have nexted her. Why not? There were 10,000 more right behind her without that requirement.

    And let us also be even more honest. If I had something like that on my page–I would have been nexted as a creepy 30 something virgin guy.

    This is a culture-has-infiltrated the church problem.

  6. mdavid

    DG, I am curious why men would look at a Christian dating/marriage site (and a Catholic one focused on marriage in particular) and seek women who wouldn’t live up to Christian standards of conduct.

    I’m kind of chuckling here, because I just assumed everyone thought like I did on this, but it seems like nobody does.

    Non-religious types (and this means the lukewarm religious) love to deflower girls raised right. People often forget just how nasty most women are today compared to quality girls. Non-feminine behavior (even from good-looking women) is a major turn-off: feminism, butch, tats, rudeness, flake, just being rotten human beings is offensive to secular men nearly as much as religious ones. Everyone like virtue, for others, because virtue has value. Decent women (and men) are in demand. Thin girls in long dresses and long hair get tons of attention today, because they are so rare.

    Read (and watch the video) the following thread, where player’s cry about the loss of young innocent girls from 1969. And at that time the culture was already sliding downhill. It’s easy to see the difference compared to now. It’s not like people have changed themselves; it’s that their experiences have changed. Most girls are ruined by age 25 and not very nice. Players really need intact families and religious people to raise the next crop of decent girls to seduce. Who wants to seduce a slut? Yuck.

    https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-18625.html

  7. There’s lukewarm Catholics that don’t mind and bad Catholics that hold heretical views about what is and is not ok. And then rhere are just lazy Catholics that see what a courtship takes – they either don’t want the effort or don’t think it is possible to follow it (which includes thinking it impossible to find a woman able to/worth following it for).

    Or they think all the women saying they’re saving themselves are lying, “born again virgins”.

    Or they just are the type that want the benefits of a “catholic woman” without all the actual religious beliefs and responsibilities. I know ex-amish men that are now Baptist and dream about finding a good amish wife, marrying her, and making her Baptist. They don’t think about how they destroy the traditional values they desire when they destroy the religion and culture that made it.

    Which describes all of western civilization.

    We’d rather destroy beauty and truth to get a broken good to serve our selfish desires than do the hard work. And we leave the pieces to the next generation to sift through for the least broken parts to do the same.

  8. Pilgrim of the East

    IMHO it’s really simple. Majority of Christians are just nominal Christians, but still prefer to marry people of the same ingroup. There is few serious Christians and by selecting chastity in questionnaire they reduced potential match pool to these few, thus making getting date difficult because most people have many more criteria than just this.

    (yeah, that’s basically what you said, but said in a concise way)

  9. Agreed with Pilgrim of the East.

    When civilizations are materially rich, religion is basically a thing people only resort to when they feel like it or are in times of trouble. Such Christians only pick and choose what they will follow (aka the buffet Christians mentioned earlier). Sexual drive is strong in men so most men will not choose to adhere to faith in that area.

    I’d bet that most who call themselves Christians haven’t even read through the Bible once in their lives.

  10. Novaseeker

    i agree that mostly it’s because people are fairly nominal themselves. Then why bother seeking a spouse at a Christian website? I think it’s because guys see things on a bit of a sliding scale, and that these women, even though not chaste (or at least, they are not looking for chaste women there), are still “better candidates” than the general pool, and so, even though chastity disinterests them, they prefer fishing in the Christian pool. They think that the women are still better than the general pool, and since they don’t value chastity, they don’t care if they are not particularly chaste. What they are looking for is a kind of mainstream “Christian” who practices serial monogamy prior to marriage like everyone else but whom they think, in other ways, shares more similar values, or is somehow better than, the women in the general pool.

  11. Scott

    i agree that mostly it’s because people are fairly nominal themselves. Then why bother seeking a spouse at a Christian website? I think it’s because guys see things on a bit of a sliding scale, and that these women, even though not chaste (or at least, they are not looking for chaste women there), are still “better candidates” than the general pool, and so, even though chastity disinterests them, they prefer fishing in the Christian pool. They think that the women are still better than the general pool, and since they don’t value chastity, they don’t care if they are not particularly chaste. What they are looking for is a kind of mainstream “Christian” who practices serial monogamy prior to marriage like everyone else but whom they think, in other ways, shares more similar values, or is somehow better than, the women in the general pool.

    For the win. This was precisely the algorithm I used, especially after my divorce when I was in my 30s looking again. It is the ambient atmosphere of these sites.

  12. Thank you for the replies everyone. You are filling in gaps where you aren’t confirming earlier suspicions. I appreciate this, as it is rather alien to me and so I cannot relate except as an intellectual exercise.

  13. A Visitor

    “For whatever reason these men feel they need to marry a Christian woman, but of course don’t want to actually carry out a proper courtship process. ”

    Late to the party but here goes: never done online dating because I never have, for lack of a better term (my situation only), been so desperate. Granted my dating life has been a net negative objectively speaking (I inadverantly attract the crazy; among other things my first gf from grade school is now a lesbian, not joking), I haven’t done a courtship because I’ve never looked into it and trying to carry something like that out is akin to recovering lost knowledge. Couple that with a family that has pretty much abandoned the faith and it’s pretty much striking it out on my own. May try online dating soon. Not having much luck after Mass or in YA groups. Read the ladies’ post and if FBNF is reading this, where are you at?

  14. A Visitor

    Figure I’d clarify the last part of my last post. Not desperate now, just willing to try something new.

  15. Visitor, check your e-mail.

  16. T.

    One must be realistic when it comes to sex, dating, marriage etc.

    If you are looking for a devout, practicing Christian woman, who is a virgin, and intends to remain so until marriage, decently attractive, and intends to be a dutiful Christian hausfrau, your best hope is searching for conservative or fundamentalist churches – the more right-wing (theologically) it is, the better. And you best grab them up when they are young (late teens or early 20s), because these women are going to be paired off fast.

    You could also opt for a relatively morally conservative (shuns casual sex or has tried it before and hate it, and only have sex once in a relationship) and spiritual and/or religious woman. They are hard to find not because they are few (they’re actually much more common than you think) but because they are less visible. Those who have conservative sexual morals tend to be discreet when talking about sex in public and are much more likely to be found in the bookstore, yoga studio, rather than the bar and club scene (they still visit, but not regularly).

    Alternatively you could buy a mail-order bride from the former Soviet Union or East Asia. Just screen her carefully and make sure she likes you not for the money, but for you. Although this is a crap-shoot, some such marriages are happy while others fail miserably.

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