Tradition Thursday- #6

I am going to continue from the last past in this series by providing excepts from St. Ignatius’ letters to the early church. The first was to the Ephesians, and this second one is to the Magnesians. They  were written sometime after 100 A.D., not long after the passing of St. John the Apostle.  His letter to the Magnesians:

Chapter 3. Honour your youthful bishop

Now it becomes you also not to treat your bishop too familiarly on account of his youth, but to yield him all reverence, having respect to the power of God the Father, as I have known even holypresbyters do, not judging rashly, from the manifest youthful appearance [of their bishop], but as being themselves prudent in God, submitting to him, or rather not to him, but to the Father of Jesus Christ, the bishop of us all. It is therefore fitting that you should, after no hypocritical fashion, obey [your bishop], in honour of Him who has willed us [so to do], since he that does not so deceives not [by such conduct] the bishop that is visible, but seeks to mock Him that is invisible. And all such conduct has reference not to man, but to God, who knows all secrets.

Chapter 4. Some wickedly act independently of the bishop

It is fitting, then, not only to be called Christians, but to be so in reality: as some indeed give one the title of bishop, but do all things without him. Now such persons seem to me to be not possessed of a good conscience, seeing they are not stedfastly gathered together according to the commandment.

Chapter 5. Death is the fate of all such

Seeing, then, all things have an end, these two things are simultaneously set before us— death and life; and every one shall go unto his own place. For as there are two kinds of coins, the one of God, the other of the world, and each of these has its special character stamped upon it, [so is it also here.] The unbelieving are of this world; but the believing have, in love, the character of God the Father by Jesus Christ, by whom, if we are not in readiness to die into His passion, His life is not in us.

Chapter 6. Preserve harmony

Since therefore I have, in the persons before mentioned, beheld the whole multitude of you in faith and love, I exhort you to study to do all things with a divine harmony, while your bishop presides in the place of God, and your presbyters in the place of the assembly of the apostles, along with your deacons, who are most dear to me, and are entrusted with the ministry of Jesus Christ, who was with the Father before the beginning of time, and in the end was revealed. Do all then, imitating the same divine conduct, pay respect to one another, and let no one look upon his neighbour after the flesh, but continually love each other in Jesus Christ. Let nothing exist among you that may divide you; but be united with your bishop, and those that preside over you, as a type and evidence of your immortality.

Chapter 7. Do nothing without the bishop and presbyters

As therefore the Lord did nothing without the Father, being united to Him, neither by Himself nor by the apostles, so neither do anything without the bishop and presbyters. Neither endeavour that anything appear reasonable and proper to yourselves apart; but being come together into the same place, let there be one prayer, one supplication, one mind, one hope, in love and in joy undefiled. There is one Jesus Christ, than whom nothing is more excellent. Therefore run together as into one temple of God, as to one altar, as to one Jesus Christ, who came forth from one Father, and is with and has gone to one.

Chapter 8. Caution against false doctrines

Be not deceived with strange doctrines, nor with old fables, which are unprofitable. For if we still live according to the Jewish law, we acknowledge that we have not received grace. For the divinest prophets lived according to Christ Jesus. On this account also they were persecuted, being inspired by His grace to fully convince the unbelieving that there is one God, who has manifested Himself by Jesus Christ His Son, who is His eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased Him that sent Him.

Chapter 9. Let us live with Christ

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death— whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master— how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, having come, raised them from the dead. Matthew 27:52

Chapter 10. Beware of Judaizing

Let us not, therefore, be insensible to His kindness. For were He to reward us according to our works, we should cease to be. Therefore, having become His disciples, let us learn to live according to the principles of Christianity. For whosoever is called by any other name besides this, is not of God. Lay aside, therefore, the evil, the old, the sour leaven, and be changed into the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be salted in Him, lest any one among you should be corrupted, since by your savour you shall be convicted. It is absurd to profess Christ Jesus, and to Judaize. For Christianity did not embrace Judaism, but JudaismChristianity, that so every tongue which believes might be gathered together to God.

Chapter 13. Be established in faith and unity

Study, therefore, to be established in the doctrines of the Lord and the apostles, that so all things, whatsoever you do, may prosper both in the flesh and spirit; in faith and love; in the Son, and in the Father, and in the Spirit; in the beginning and in the end; with your most admirable bishop, and the well-compacted spiritual crown of your presbytery, and the deacons who are according to God. Be subject to the bishop, and to one another, as Jesus Christ to the Father, according to the flesh, and the apostles to Christ, and to the Father, and to the Spirit; that so there may be a union both fleshly and spiritual.

A few observations and comments:

1) The lure of Pharasaic legalism was just as strong in Ignatius’ time as it was in the time of St. Paul. The destruction of the Temple might have had some responsibility for that. This would be because a number of Jews would have fled the Roman province of Palestine, and perhaps settled in areas which had pre-existing Christian communities. Given the similarities of the two at the time, syncretism would have been a factor.

2) The leaders of the Church were quite active in demonstrating the separate identity of Jews and Christians at this point. There was already a permanent break here.

3) The early church evidently had a lot of trouble with Christians deciding to go off and do their own thing, outside of the authority of the clergy. Disunity and schism are nothing new to the Church. Further, it seems clear that there was a full structure to the clergy at this point, and it was in charge of maintaining the faith. It was not some later Roman invention.

[Further Comments may follow later]

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8 Comments

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8 responses to “Tradition Thursday- #6

  1. Thanks for the link. Several bloggers have linked to it recently. It is something I hope to cover in the next few days.

  2. fringed

    @ Donal:

    It seems you deleted the hateful comment that was on this thread a few minutes ago. If I got that correctly, then for what it’s worth, MUCH RESPECT TO YOU SIR!

  3. Is it hateful to know an understand a jew created marxism? That jews drove the early ussr which killed millions of Russian ie White Christians? Is it hateful to know and understand jews drive the progressive movement? The leaders in backing and driving the porn industry, feminism, gay rights etc etc?

  4. Ton, it is not hateful to note those directly. Those would be facts or arguments which could be supported by facts. Your previous comment, however, was no such thing. It and those comments like it will continue to be deleted.

  5. You should read the talmud sometime

    And I didn’t say anything the old-school RCC would have disagreed with.

  6. Novaseeker

    An extraordinary amount of insight from His Eminence, frankly.

    A couple of reflections.

    The loss of the sacred led to a loss of participation of women and men. But I think that men were really turned off by the loss of the sacred. It seems clear that many men are not being drawn into a deeper liturgical spirituality; today, many men are not being drawn to service at the altar.

    Young men and men respond to rigor and precision and excellence. When I was trained to be a server, the training lasted for several weeks and you had to memorize the prayers at the foot of the altar. It was a rigorous and a carefully executed service. All of a sudden, in the wake of Vatican II, the celebration of the liturgy became very sloppy in many places. It became less attractive to young men, for it was slipshod.

    The introduction of girl servers also led many boys to abandon altar service. Young boys don’t want to do things with girls. It’s just natural. The girls were also very good at altar service. So many boys drifted away over time. I want to emphasize that the practice of having exclusively boys as altar servers has nothing to do with inequality of women in the Church.

    I can say, without hesitation, that this describes very well the attraction of Orthodoxy for young men (most of our converts here are men under 35-40). The Orthodox Church, for all of its many flaws, has *this*, and it is the main attraction. Not just the liturgy, but the discipline — the rigor of the weekly fasts, the prayer rules, the use of the prayer rope, the experience of Great Lent. We tell young men that they are joining the spiritual marine corps. And in many ways, it’s true. This is very attractive for men — most of the women who come tend to come along with men who are drawn to the Orthodox Church.

    There’s no reason this can’t also be what Catholicism is, really. It isn’t extrinsic to the Western Catholic tradition in any way. But I think that, due to the overwhelming cultural pressure in the West, and the feminization of the Church in the West that has already taken place, it will be difficult to restore this fully in the West without reunion.

    Reunion is needed, and is needed urgently — for different but compelling reasons on both the Orthodox and Catholic sides. As someone who has lived on both sides, and can see the problems on both sides, it seems obvious that reunion would go a long way to helping fix the respective, and different, problems each side suffers from. We are, in fact, one in Christ. There is but one loaf — the same loaf at St, Veronica’s RCC as there is at St. George’s Greek Orthodox Church down the street. God is not, and will not, be mocked, honestly. Working for union is probably the most effective way to address the “man problem” in the Catholic Church, I think — because we don’t have that specific problem in Orthodoxy (but we have other ones that I think reunion with the Western Church would go a long way to alleviating).

  7. mdavid

    Nova, …this describes…the attraction of Orthodoxy for young men…

    Agreed. It’s what I’ve seen, too (as Byzantine).

    Working for union…is the most effective way to address the RCC “man problem”…

    This isn’t true. First, EO doesn’t want it, making it a false hope. Second, the doctrinal gap (creed, pope, councils, marriage, bc) is now too great so it can’t happen even if desired. Third, Byzantines already offer this masculine culture and it has made zero impact (most RC don’t even know they exist; EO would be the same).

    God will not be mocked.

    Yes. Demographically RC feminists are being swept aside by history, making the problem self-correcting. Feminism is yesterday’s news in the RCC; that shot its wad by the 80’s and every local church that tried it has declined (painful to watch). The traditional ones are growing like crazy. A parish need kids, love, and community to thrive. Feminists lack all three.

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