Since folks seem rather intent on going off-topic, I figured a post devoted to that purpose seems appropriate. Please continue any discussions from the old threads that weren’t relevant to those topics here. This will be a lightly moderated but I would ask folks to show at least some restraint.
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Donal Graeme · Wisdom cries out in the street… who shall listen?
Donal Graeme 
Probably has an insufferably narcissistic instagram page. But men love to chase women around, so he’s haaaaapy.
jack
If they make it to 70 still married, I’ll believe somewhat.
Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, we already know that women can stop being attracted to men over time, so how might a woman’s initial attraction for a man be any kind of indicator the relationship is going to last, either? We see celebrities getting divorced all the time, and the people involved were obviously very hot for each other in the beginning. Could it be that attraction is eventually lost, because inevitably, the other person’s flaws in the relationship become way too apparent? Isn’t this disillusionment going to happen with every couple, the only difference being in how they react to it, heavily influenced by their morals and beliefs about the sanctity of marriage?
Celebrities marry for publicity
ballista74
From my understanding though, sexual attraction is a respect factor more than a romantic feeling factor. She has to be able to see the man as “worthy” of all of her to be able to offer all of herself without reservation. In other words, her sexual attraction is a direct reflection of the value that she sees in the man.
Obviously, respect has to be there. Once a woman loses respect for a man, the relationship is either over, or things are always a struggle. I’ve seen this situation with family members whose wives didn’t respect them.
About romantic feelings, though, I wouldn’t suggest that romantic feelings are always going to follow sexual attraction. I was just trying to comprehend a situation in which a woman has sexual attraction for the man she’s going to marry (which many here seem to believe is mandatory from the beginning of the relationship) but doesn’t have romantic love for him. I would think romantic love would follow sexual attraction in that particular situation. I guess this point isn’t that important, though. It was more of a conundrum I was considering was all.
Tru
Celebrities marry for publicity
Some do, but it’s obviously not confined to that. They’re still human. They still want to find and fall in love just like anyone else does, and many of them are going to do that with other celebrities who they see as being on the same level with them.
Besides, celebrities notwithstanding, how many of us have known couples in which one person states “He” (or she) is just not the person I married.” In some cases, they have a point, but in others, how much of the bad stuff that people eventually noticed about each other was there all along, but they were simply blinded to it by their feelings earlier on?
I wasn’t going to say any more, as most of my observations seem to be unwelcome, but….
“I completely fail to see why a woman who finds a man attractive gets the vapors when it is suggested that she might say to him, “Hi. My name is ______. How are you?” What is so damn hard about this? Why can’t you do a simple thing like smile? Why can’t you go up to an attractive man and say “Hi” to him?”
Smiling? Of course. Pleasantness? Absolutely. You catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar, pardon the fly reference, but you get the point.
But you are forgetting something — we were TAUGHT (if we were taught by our traditionally minded parents) that to be overly forward is unladylike behavior. We are to behave ourselves. We don’t ask men out, we don’t overtly approach them, because it is not the behavior of a respectable lady. The men do the pursuing. We are the objects of pursuit. This was drilled into us firmly, and I can tell you if a lady in my group of friends had acted so forward, she would have been left on the sidelines while the men went looking for real ladies.
A respectable lady puts her best foot forward, but is never overtly pushy. To simply walk up to a strange man and say, “Hi, my name is so-and-so, what’s yours?” is overtly pushy. We were taught that from our earliest days to act like ladies. Please get this through; the lady who finds a man attractive will make an effort to be where he is, to be nearby yet not too nearby, and try to demonstrate herself to best advantage (by ladylike manners, modest appropriate dress, showcasing her talents in whatever art or craft in which she has skill [particularly the homemaking ones], etc. This is how we demonstrate interest. If you want to marry ladies, you need to know how a true lady will behave.
@ Hank
Romance is a duality with women.
First, we need to define with romance is. Romance and/or romantic feelings tend to follow actions of “special affection” that a man or woman do for each other.
In terms of this, we can think of sexual attraction as a filter for the duality of a woman’s response:
If a man who wants to romance a woman with flowers is sexually unattractive to that woman, then she will perceive him giving her flowers as a nice gesture. Or in the case of him being very unattractive she will perceive his romantic gesture as creepy.
However, if a man is sexually attractive to a woman, she will perceive romantic actions as fuel to her proverbial fire. This special affection may precede or succeed her desire to have sex with him.
As you can see, this is where most Christian counseling advice goes wrong. They tell husbands to romance their wives when that is not the problem at all. The problem is that wives are not sexually attracted and don’t respect their husbands,… hence they interpret any romantic gestures as trying to buy love or sex and become more unhappy with said husbands.
Ew. “Showcase her talents” is so fake. Girls who do this are ugly. I went to school with girls like this. They’re also full of themselves and their damned scones.
“Showcase her talents” is so fake. Girls who do this are ugly.”
Well, I’m sorry you feel this way. My husband loved my homemade bread when I made some when he came to visit me. Never thought of myself as full of myself (it’s good, if I do say so myself, but I have a friend whose bread rises higher than mine.)
Women baking for men is like guys being forced to tell people that they’ve followed their passion to work in retail. Don’t pretend to love it.
You probably never wore makeup. It’s like, if you’re bitchy and hot at least you’re hot. If you’re bitchy and ugly, bake something.
Even now you’re rubbing it in my face. No one gives a fuck about your Amish Friendship Bread.
But you are forgetting something — we were TAUGHT (if we were taught by our traditionally minded parents) that to be overly forward is unladylike behavior. We are to behave ourselves. We don’t ask men out, we don’t overtly approach them, because it is not the behavior of a respectable lady. The men do the pursuing. We are the objects of pursuit. This was drilled into us firmly, and I can tell you if a lady in my group of friends had acted so forward, she would have been left on the sidelines while the men went looking for real ladies.
The lack of self awareness in this statement is typical. Did you not see, or do you think you are different? Men were taught to be weak and hesitant and not a one of you women will let that be an excuse. Women get taught to be hesitant and secretive, and men just have to accept that and work around it? Are you serious, or are you just being difficult?
Gertrude, glad to hear you are having success. Keep up the attitude, too, because that is really attractive. That will definitely help you find a man.
The Shadowed Knight
I’m all for spontaneous gift-giving, not “look what a wifey I am” fake shit.
Nobody wants these men. They’re grumpy assholes.
Well, Try, if that is your attitude about acting like a wife, then leave men alone. No one deserves that attitude. Do not bother, just walk away and be done.
The Shadowed Knight
Forget game. Become liberal arts professors and grade your papers unfairly. That’s how you’re gonna get sex.
I’m not trying to impress any of the platinum penises on here. There’s nothing desirable about being told you’re an idiot all the time.
Tru
It’s the same as an addict getting a hit of heroin when you find a mistake to point-out in someone else.
Tru the Commenter
Tru admitted to not being a Christian and basically trolling, why do you all keep indulging her? How are you going to pick up on woman’s IOI if you can’t even pick up on their IOT (indicator of trolling) and in some cases sarcasm?
Thanks for undermining the effort I previously put on here. It’s just impossible to reason with people. But go visit her blog.
I wasn’t trolling. I was honestly commenting. I put a lot of time into a blog. I put a lot of time into finding the truth. I put a lot of time into listening to other people and trying to understand the divide. I really thought this was a good cause. It’s just another toxic religious environment.
Boy, but you do like to dick-ride my comments.
I didn’t realize that when the Bible said that everyone else was greater than me, it was such a personal message.
@ theshadowedknight
LOL.
Deep Strength,
Your statement here: ““However, if a man is sexually attractive to a woman, she will perceive romantic actions as fuel to her proverbial fire” seems to support my thinking that if a woman is sexually attracted to her man to whom she is committed, feelings of romantic love for him by her are likely to follow.
In any case, all of your statements are quite valid. I learned these lessons early on about the flowers and romantic gestures and such when I was in my early 20s. I also agree with you about Christian counseling often not addressing the real problem.
@jack “Women can afford to be more coy at 20 than 45. That is for sure…”
You’re right jack. Absolutely. Each man and each woman has to decide based on their own life experiences, their age, their relationship goals etc what is the best plan of action for them. However, even a woman of 45 looking for a marriage partner and needing to be a little more forward, can still give off stronger friendly IOI’s without necessarily giving off sexual IOI’s. Women this age, usually, are more confident and able to assess men quicker because they’ve had more experience around them. (assuming they’ve already had a marriage or more LTR’s.) It also depends on the values of the woman. If she had no qualms about a sexual relationship before marriage, she is going to be more forward about this than a woman of strong faith who won’t compromise that before she has a ring on her finger. I think the ladies commenting on this thread are still in their 20’s and are intending to remain chaste until marriage. Since that is their intention, and assuming the men they are looking for are not more than a few years older than them, the dynamic will be different than middle aged people.
I think anyone taking dating advice from anyone else has to consider the background of the person offering the advice and then take what they think will work for them where they are and throw the rest away.
@ Igrobins:
In my opinion some types of sarcasm can be fun, to a point. But outright deception and hate projection is way over the line for me. I also totally disdain when somebody fakes being a Christian and playing the fakee as a fool.
But the rest of the thread has been both interesting and hilarious. Dalrock has quite a funny new post up also.
@Hank “Isn’t this disillusionment going to happen with every couple, the only difference being in how they react to it, heavily influenced by their morals and beliefs about the sanctity of marriage?”
Yes. Feelings of attraction ebb and flow in marriage. The attraction is still there but not always on the surface. During stressful busy times of life, times of illness, aging parents, raising kids, you can get distracted from your attraction. It can get a lower priority at times. However, if you intend to keep your vows no matter what, you make the time to put in the effort to make your relationship a priority. You have to be aware of when life is getting in the way and do what you can to clear some space to focus on each other. If either partner isn’t will to do this, the marriage will be in trouble.
Kind of like how fringed is jack is always mad at me.
*deception *sarcasm
I’m gonna be sorry for asking, but here it goes:
Tru, why do you call me jack??????????
The real jack made his appearance and cleared up that instance of confusion you created. I believe you have a meaning in your head for the behavior of calling me jack, but I do not know what it is and regrettably I am so curious.
“You probably never wore makeup. It’s like, if you’re bitchy and hot at least you’re hot. If you’re bitchy and ugly, bake something. Even now you’re rubbing it in my face. No one gives a fuck about your Amish Friendship Bread.”
Excuse me, but I do wear makeup and I did at that time as well. Yes, I will readily admit I have been a “bitch”, as you call it, on many occasions — show me one woman who hasn’t and she is either a saint or fibbing. We’re all works in progress. I’m not rubbing anything in your face; if you visit my blog you’ll see what I tend to write about. I do a lot of homesteading stuff; this doesn’t mean you have to also. It’s just what I happen to do. It’s less expensive and healthier. And I don’t appreciate your profanity ONE BIT. If you can’t comment with some politeness, then don’t comment at all.(Of course I have no idea what DS would say about it, but that’s what you would get if you commented on my blog using such filthy language as you have used here.) I have judged from your posts that you’re female, so here goes — I won’t get blasted for my “vocabulary lecture”, which happened one time when I rebuked a gentleman who was using inappropriate language:
If you can’t stop using profanity, then you should close your mouth (i.e., rest your fingers) until you get a better vocabulary more fitting for a lady to use. I’ve seen comments that literally drip with sarcasm and inappropriateness. And if you refuse to comment appropriately, you ought to be banned from doing so until you can clean up your mouth. You have also indicated that you have little to no respect for religion, so if you cannot at least remain respectful of the religious views aired here or anywhere else, then you ought to leave.
Really, I am extremely surprised at how the gentlemen on here seem to not care one whit about some of the language used — don’t you have any standards at all???!!!
@Tru “You probably never wore makeup. It’s like, if you’re bitchy and hot at least you’re hot. If you’re bitchy and ugly, bake something. Even now you’re rubbing it in my face. No one gives a fuck about your Amish Friendship Bread.”
Tru, We all know you have no tolerance for fake Christians, but I don’t think Mom in a Shoe is being fake. She comes from a very traditional Catholic background and in her social circle things work differently than in more evangelical or mainline churches. However, in an office setting where a woman maybe is attracted to a co worker or he’s a friend of friend, there’s nothing wrong with the idea of finding a way to show off your cooking as a way of showing him a little more about yourself.
You have a pattern of stating you’re leaving or alluding to it and then you come back. While you do have a knack for seeing things as they are and stating it bluntly, there’s no reason to be as cruel as you are being here. Personally I’m beginning to think you like the drama. If the conversation isn’t going your way or you’re not getting enough attention, you change tactics and get more outrageous to shake things up. If you have such a low opinion of the men and women here, why are you here? Don’t you have anything else to do if the conversations here bug you so much?
Many of us have gone our of our way to make room for your point of view and welcome you even if you do come off a little harsh at times because we did value you input. It’s getting to the point where that welcome is wearing thin.
“If the conversation isn’t going your way or you’re not getting enough attention, you change tactics and get more outrageous to shake things up.”
Yes, and the men tolerate it and this is how the manosphere ends up femdommed, but meh who cares,
@ Mom in the Shoe:
Hello. I’m doing more commenting on this thread than I’ve done during the preceding twelve months on all the blogs I read. Since I’m on a role, I address you as well. I am guessing your age is closer to mine. I’m 50 years of age. I understand the way you were raised was to not approach men so as not to be considered forward, or a slut. Thirty five years ago not being forward was considered virtuous. Nowadays “ladies” are not virtuous, or perhaps only 1% at most. Another 50% fake being virtuous in my guestimation. Today, in accordance with red pill foresight, I agree that females should do a bit more of the approaching. Like I said up-thread, eye contact and a modest smile outta suffice as an initial IOI.
If I were in the market for another wife and were dating, I would very much appreciate a women baking and cooking for me. That would be sooo cool. I love to eat. I’m a good cook myself. Anyway, nice to meet you. You and your family have a blessed year.
Robbins, do you have anything better to do than to gun for the easy target? You’re like: wait… I GOT thisss!
Braaavo.
@momintheshoe I said to Tru “While you do have a knack for seeing things as they are and stating it bluntly, there’s no reason to be as cruel as you are being here. ”
I just want to make clear that I didn’t mean what she was saying about you in her comments was her “seeing things as they are and stating it bluntly”, I just mean with her comments in general about dating, attraction etc. , she has a knack for being blunt but that general bluntness has turned to cruelty in your case.
I hope that makes sense. 🙂
I’m glad you appreciate my bluntness. It’s a part of who I am.
LGR, I would hardly say the Manosphere is femdommed. Not after the fight between you, SSM, and Lena. If anything, women fled in the aftermath. The Christian Manosphere is crippled, perhaps mortally wounded, but the reactionaries and pickup artists have the lead, now.
The greatest benefit of that little mess was that women got taken much less seriously afterwards. So what if women say something foolish or obnoxious? Not like what they are saying really matters, anyway. A sort of benevolent contempt is the default approach to feminine commenters.
The intersexual mechanics have been found, studied, catalogued, and stored, and nearly all of that without the help of women–at least not consciously. The female influx is far too late to have any meaningful impact. They would have to predict the next direction–which is happening organically–and women do not have the intellectual ability to predict what that will be.
The Shadowed Knight
Shadowed Knight: You’re like the smartest person here, ya know. You’re kind of limping along.
$100 you have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about and that was just an opportunity to name-drop from the past.
I don’t think being here for a long time adds anything to you expert creds. Indeed, context would ascertain it diminishes them.
Sorry I made like four posts in a row. omg
Shoe, …we were TAUGHT…that to be overly forward is unladylike behavior…We don’t ask men out, we don’t overtly approach them…
And men were taught that women were nice, trustworthy, chaste, and loved the nice guys. Everyone was lied to. Get over it.
I’m simply amazed the men and women on this thread are so blasé. Sure, if you an 8 or above, ok, you’re fine. If not, you are probably in trouble if you want to marry well. Real marriage is now exclusively for the elite.
Women have 10 years to land a man her level (or a point or two above if she gets aggressive before 24). Regardless, YOU WILL HAVE TO GET AGGRESSIVE OR SLASH YOUR STANDARDS. That’s the deal. Who cares if it’s unladylike. Desperate times demand desperate measures. Pretend you are in a war, because you are, you’re just too stupid to see it.
Men have 15 years to land an unspoiled woman at their level (or a point below). But the goods are extremely damaged in so many ways, be prepared for the worst. But if you have balls and can accept calculated risks, go for it. Just expect the hardest job you can imagine. Set brutal metrics for money, fitness, travel, and a strong social life. Don’t expect to succeed. You may invest everything and get nothing, so it’s got to be worth it for it’s own sake.
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Tru, do you prefer to mail a check, or wire the money? If you want to wire it, I will need a day to find a Western Union. Otherwise, you can send me an email and I will reply with my address. I will not turn down $100, especially when it is so easily made.
The Shadowed Knight
That wasn’t funny, shadowed knight. That was so blasé.
MDavid: I think we agree on something. Don’t let it go to your head, now.
By “something”, I meant the point.
Sorry for the four posts. Again.