Random Musings and Links- #4

For this post I’m going to begin with the links and then carry one to various musings and random thoughts.

I would direct my male readers, especially the unmarried ones, towards this post by Feminine But Not Feminist. Therein she has asked Men what they really think of young women who have had premarital sex. She hopes to use that post, and the comments by men that follow, to clue young women in to the consequences of engaging in premarital sex. Here are the four questions she is asking men:

1) What would you tell a young woman that wants to get married “someday”, but thinks it’s okay if she sleeps around for a while first?

2) Would you rather marry a girl that is a virgin, or one who has a lot of sexual experience, and why?

3) Does a woman’s prior sexual experience make her bad wife material, and why?

4) If a woman is willing to have sex with you pretty early on, what do you think of her (even if you do decide to have sex with her), as opposed to a woman that isn’t willing to give it up right away?

So stop by her blog and give your thoughts (please direct any towards her blog, not the comments here, thank you).

Free Northerner talks about his experiences courting a young woman in Courtship and Young Men. While we can never truly know the reasons why it didn’t work out for him, FN’s tale is far from unique. I’ve had many men comment on this blog and e-mail me about similar experiences. His post reminded me that parental madness during the courtship process is another explanation for why men aren’t courting Traditional women in, which I examined in my post Whither Thy Sons? [Update: Free Northerner has followed up with another post- More on Courtship.]

A Northern Observer has a post up about a woman who decided not to stop at accusing her husband of abuse. Some poetic justice appears to be on the way, and is well deserved.

Ballista has an excellent post up about how Marriage Doesn’t Wait for True Love. It is a superb take-down of the madness that the “Purity Movement” has become. Personally, I think that the problem started when the focus started to be on virginity as compared to chastity. One can be a virgin and not chaste (think a young woman addicted to 50 Shades of Grey and the ilk), and one can be a non-virgin and chaste (such as a young woman who was a virgin until her wedding night). Fortunately Catholic teaching on this is better, and this phenomenon is mostly restricted to Protestant sects. [Update: Or perhaps it is more common in Catholic circles than I thought, as Ballista alludes to with his comment here. Personally I haven’t ever seen that kind of stuff in anywhere in any of the Catholic circles I’ve traveled in, so I wonder if this is new, or just something I missed.] Unfortunately (and the reason why Catholics shouldn’t crow), this teaching is hardly ever actually, you know, taught.

Elspeth asks What If It Doesn’t Work Out? Like many of her posts, its a must-read, whether you are married or not.

Chad has been writing a story of power. You can find Part 1 here, Part 2 here, and Part 3 here.

Zippy talks about how people are Blaming the Prophets.

Margery responds to a feminist.

April over at Peaceful Single Girl examines Disney Weddings. The idolization (which is what this is) of weddings and the honeymoon period is not a new phenomenon, believe it or not. St. John Crysostomom  addressed similar problems a millennium and  half ago in one of his homilies. It is going to be the subject of a future post, one that will probably come in about 2 weeks or so.

Lovelyleblanc warns men that foreign women are no panacea to the problems in Western women.

That ends the link part of this post. Now to a few things bouncing about in my head.

Female Empowerment

First off, Elspeth has been taking exception to the traditional notions of “Team Woman” in the manosphere in my post Power To The People. She made a number of convincing arguments that the level of solidarity among women is heavily dependent on the environment, and went a long way towards convincing me of her point of view. I recommend that readers head over to the post and read them, starting with the first one here. With that in mind, here is a graphic which sets about illustrating how “Team Woman” would work under that particular model. As you can see, the level of female solidarity is directly connected to the overall prosperity and security of the social structure. Furthermore, the relationship is geometric.

The relative strength of Team Woman depending on the environmentNothing to be Done

Something that has come up quite often, both in the comments of this blog and others, and in my e-mail correspondence, is the relative lack of opportunities available for young people looking to marry to connect with like-minded individuals. One young woman in particular has explained to me that she would love the opportunity to meet more people to see if anyone would be interested in her, but hasn’t figured out how. In her present situation she just doesn’t have a whole lot of options for meeting eligible young men. “Going out” means going to places where there won’t be any devout Christians, or to places lacking in eligible, single men. She is not alone in voicing this concern, I’ve heard it from men and women alike.

The best place to look for such candidates is other churches, assuming that yours doesn’t have any men or women who will work for you. The problem is that visiting churches to looking for marriage partners is a time limited window activity. Depending on when various churches hold services, you might not be able to visit more than one a week. And to really scope out a church and determine if it has anyone who will work for you takes several weeks, as people might not be there on any given week. For men this is even more difficult, as single men are basically outsiders at Church and are distrusted. All of which means that a lot of time and effort is required to search various churches for potential spouses. Of course, doesn’t even take into consideration theological concerns. Or the fact that some parts of the country might not have many active churches. And the list goes on….

Unfortunately there is no easy solution to this problem. Online dating solves some issues, and brings up a whole different set. Matchmaking through personal connections is great, if you have the connections, and if your connections are of a mind to help, and if your connections know potential candidates. The whole thing is very depressing, and I recommend that anyone caught in this trap to read their Bibles often. I find some of the Psalms to be especially comforting.



Filed under Christianity, Churchianity, Courtship, Femininity, Feminism, God, Marriage, Red Pill, Sexual Market Place, The Church, Uncategorized, Women

16 responses to “Random Musings and Links- #4

  1. ballista74

    Thanks for the link. Actually, purity rings come up a considerable number of times in conjunction with Catholic references. Purity balls as well. So there is no “mostly restricted” to this. Everyone’s doing it.

  2. Ballista

    Thanks for the heads up. Never heard that from any Catholic source I’ve been privy to, so good to know its out there. Will alter the post accordingly.

  3. ballista74

    Yes. The wikipedia entry for “True Love Waits” specifically references the Roman Catholic Church as well.

  4. Elspeth

    Thanks for the linkage!

  5. mdavid

    DG, Personally I haven’t ever seen that kind of stuff in anywhere in any of the Catholic circles I’ve traveled in

    Me neither, in 40 years of poking around. There are always crossover types (as per links) but they are not organic Catholic, merely borrowing from other traditions.

    I think Catholic culture is more prone to “man up and marry those sluts” style of disaster than purity rings and whatnot. The reason for this is likely that American Catholics don’t have Puritan roots like many protestants do, don’t mix with other protestants as much, and it’s too big/international/historical for any one group of wackos get very far.

  6. Thanks for the linkage.
    I would suggest that the young women join any activities within the church, like community service, Bible Study, or choir (if she can sing).

  7. mdavid

    Re:Team Woman, I think the graph should be bimodal. Basically, women (and men) band together only out of benefit. Everyone wishes to be their own individualistic island (look at kids trying to share) and only evolutionary advantage stops us.

    Therefore, women team up aggressively at both ends of the spectrum: in chaos or prosperity, but they are willing to abandon the group at any time when a top man comes along (which is why so many women don’t believe in Team Woman). Under stressful times (war, famine) women get as many fellow women (and beta men) to cling to as they can, like herds of wildebeests or salmon, for protection and teamwork.

    In times of plenty and security, however, the provision fear goes away, so she moves to aggressive hypergamy (the inner slut comes out). For this to work, she needs as many women on her side as possible, since the (alpha) men she screws are going to start to shun her. It’s probably (like most human behavior) too complex to be reflected with any accuracy on a two-dimensional graph, but it’s a good subject and post regardless.

  8. Thanks for the link! And all the other links, as well. I’m enjoying reading through all of this.

  9. @ Elspeth, LLB and Margery

    You are welcome.

  10. M David, Donal, and Ballista
    I haven’t seen purity rings or purity balls in my area. However, I have seen the unhealthy views that are the foundation for such activities and practices.

    As far as I can tell, very few people have a real idea of what temperance is, and that it applies to all areas of life and not simply to sexual chastity. Sexual chastity is important, yes, but if a woman is indulging herself in other pleasures it is simply a matter of time before she does one of two things. Either her will power will collapse on sexual matters as well, or her imbalanced life will lead to a cauterization of her sexual drive which will negatively impact her marriage with her future husband. What I mean is that she will have to outgrow the defects which cause a lack of joy from viewing such desires, within the loving and right limits of marriage, as unhealthy by so shutting down her drive. Sexual drives should spur us to marry, just as feelings of sadness or depression should spur us to change our lives.

    So, while I don’t see purity rings or purity balls in Catholicism, I do see the put off of marriage, adoption of pets to fulfill needs to nurture life, lack of healthy dating, and wrongheaded views of courtship such as Free Northerner shared in his posts. Catholics do not escape such errors, we simply have different expressions of the problem, though I do believe we have better tools to deal with them as well.

  11. this one made me think of single men and bad guy game, so I thought you’d think it was funny. Happy thoughts!

  12. Jenny, you have left me speechless. And let me tell you, that is quite an accomplishment. I’m still not sure what I have just seen….

  13. happyhen11

    “Personally, I think that the problem started when the focus started to be on virginity as compared to chastity. ”

    Excellent observation.

    Virginity on a pedestal is not the answer. In fact, it is downright damaging when paired with the 19th century idea that women somehow have close to a monopoly on holiness in the church. I think (but I could be wrong) this idea (and possibly that of virginity on a pedestal) stems from the Great Awakening movement, which also helped bring about women’s suffrage. I know the church of my youth was heavily influenced by the teachings of this movement as was my family.

    Unitive and procreative marital union and thus chastity should be on a pedestal with virginity taught only as merely it’s prerequisite state, something which shall come to an end and in a blissful and enjoyable way when married. Virginity should not be taught as a more holy state as compared to a healthy married life for those NOT called to monastic/clerical life. Virginity is not even a prerequisite for Christian vocation in those churches that require a celibate priesthood/monastics. More than a few Orthodox monastics and even some that have gone on to become bishops are widowers with children. Bishop David of Sitka and Alaska is a good example.

    These “purity movement” groups have indeed, as I have witnessed myself in my own childhood/teen years, placed virginity as the natural and preferred opposite to unmarried sex. Unmarried sex’s true opposite should be healthy married sex….. and thus that result necessitates for the majority of young people early marriage with lots of family support. And there in, I think, lies the rub for those parents who wish their daughters to get a degree, have a career, live a life before settling down to husband and kids, which notably was EXACTLY what my parents wanted for me.

  14. happyhen11

    And by way of clarification, anything I say or write assumes the overarching Christian teaching of NOT having sex prior to marriage as the standard and simply the way it should be. With my upbringing, it is just the default in my thinking and I just assume this goes without saying. In these discussions however I shouldn’t assume that as people come from all walks of life so I will say it all the same as misunderstandings happen.

  15. @ Happyhen

    Excellent comment (your first one, that is). There really isn’t anything I can add to it save this: Christianity seems to be beset at times by a strong gnostic urge, one that is of course heretical but never seems to truly die. In particular this urge wants to treat human sexuality as inherently sinful in one way or another. Like all heresy, it needs to be stamped out whenever it shows itself. The church you grew up in sounds like one that fully embraced that doctrinal error.

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