May The Odds Be (N)ever In Your Favor

There are certain ideas or concepts that never seem to die around these parts. One rather consistent meme that likes to rear its head often is that certain groups have it easy in the present Marriage Marketplace. This simply isn’t true. No one has it easy in the MMP. Some groups merely have it better than others. But no one has it easy.

Despite what certain commenters and posters would have you believe, chaste women don’t have it easy. Sure, they may be the “rock-stars” of the MMP, but the MMP is basically operating in the same space as the Sexual Marketplace. And chastity and the SMP don’t get along too well, as you might imagine. As I’ve explained before, unchaste women have ruined things for chaste women in the present environment. If you aren’t willing to play by the SMP’s rules, its awfully hard to get into the game. The end result is that young, chaste, marriage-minded young women can have a difficult time finding a husband if they aren’t plugged into a network of like-minded people.

This lack of networking is a problem I’ve tackled before. Until new ones are built (such as the one that Scott and his wife are working on), most marriage minded folks out there are having to grope about in the dark. I’ve talked with a number of young, marriage minded women in the months since I created this blog, and they all relate the same kind of difficulties. Being skipped over because they don’t exude a “slut aura.” Being rejected or “dumped” for not putting out. Being told the wrong things by their family and friends. Even, in some instances, of family acting almost to sabotage them. Most of them have no one to help them, no one to guide them, no one to bend a sympathetic ear to. So they end up adrift in a sea of loneliness and despair, with nary a glimmer of light to be seen.

Sadly, it was women (older women with a different set of values) who have poisoned the well for these young ladies. In his post, Ugly Ducklings?, Cail Corishev exposes how it isn’t a matter of men not finding women attractive (although I am working on a post that examines this issue). Instead, as he points out in in his latest post, women are responsible for the current state of the MMP:

Men don’t expect girls to be interested in marriage anymore, especially right out of high school.  What’s the worst thing that can happen to a bright, young 18-year-old girl, in the eyes of our society — even in church people?  Pregnancy.  Not because of the sin, primarily, but because it closes off her “potential.”  Even if she gets married to the father, who turns out to be a responsible provider, and they make a good family together, there will still be people who will sigh and wonder “what could have been,” as if she would have been curing cancer if she hadn’t gotten sidetracked by diapers and PTA meetings.  Everyone except a few oddballs like the Amish or very traditional Catholics is in agreement: a girl shouldn’t get tied down too early, preferably not before 26-28, after college and a few years of establishing a career.

So young men catch this vibe and act accordingly.  The guy who expresses an interest in marriage around typical 20-year-old girls quickly learns that he might as well talk about his struggles with chronic foot odor.  The romantic, marriage-minded boy learns that he has to hide his good intentions, so as not to scare away the girls who just want to have fun.

Unless men exercise total or near total control over the marriage market (such as in Old Testament Israel), it is women who decide the rules of the game. And women have decided as a majority that they would rather “have fun” and dabble at careers than marry young (and in a chaste manner). As a result, they convince men (who aren’t marriage-minded by nature) that marriage isn’t something to center their life around. This, plus the dangerous legal regime that men face in marriage today, means that a lot of men who would have swiftly married these women in the past are no longer in the market themselves. Throw in porn and a history of being treated poorly by women, and many men have simply checked out.

When the costs of marriage are high, and the perceived benefits low, it is only rational for people to eschew marriage. [Minor spoilers to follow]. The title of this post references an example of this. The protagonist of the book/film The Hunger Games, a 16 year-old young woman by the name of Katniss, is not at all interested in marrying. Her reason? She lives under a totalitarian regime that every year forces randomly chosen children to fight to the death. Katniss can’t bear the thought of possibly having to see her children die like that, and so decides against marriage. While an extreme example of incentives/disincentives at work, it accurately conveys how our environment affects our decisions with regards to marriage. Unfortunately, that environment is not likely to change any time soon.

Alas, it seems as though the odds are never in our favor.

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25 Comments

Filed under Courtship, Marriage, Men, Red Pill, Women

25 responses to “May The Odds Be (N)ever In Your Favor

  1. Alpha men? Seems like they’d have an easy time.

  2. In the SMP, sure. Maybe even in the MMP, although not all of them participate there.

  3. A very well written article about a sad but accurate assessment. The thing is, we can’t expect women to turn it around. It will never happen. It’s going to require men standing back up and pushing a societal reset button.

  4. Even Trad Catholics don’t have it all that easy. Home school women are 50/50 on whether they’re pushed out to ‘find their wings’ as it were. The idea being “Well she was just kept home and hasn’t experienced the world due to home schooling, don’t you think it’d be healthy for her to do that now?”

    Umm….

    NO!

    That’s what home schooling is about! For giving them an idea of how to handle the world, without them having to worry about being OF THE WORLD by submitting to it!

    I have more patience when men are pushed as such, because they need to learn how to protect from the world. For women though?

    Women should marry as close to 18 as possible, and I think men should marry between 20-24 if possible. I’d say 20 if they’re not doing college, 24 if they are. Give em a few years to show they’re not going to sink, but not so long as to become ‘worldly.’

    It’s basically the traditional route adapted to modern realities of a career for men, and legal age/maturity levels for women.

  5. The well has been poisoned, for sure. Young women that want to marry are deluded by the feminine imperative. They have a list of qualities for a husband, but what are they doing to become wives?

    They are going to college, playing at careers,and failing to cultivate the qualities necessary for successful family life. They mostly look like career girls, actand spend like career girls. What is a guy to think?

    Church women could set much better examples, but most of them are similarly corrupted by feminist attitudes and entitlement.

  6. Donal– If you or any of your readers who are particularly good with blogging/website management would like to contact us, Mychael and I would be forever grateful. As you have probably noticed, the viewing traffic is steadily increasing but the commenting is horrible. I thint this means they come, read the articles, try to post and give up. I get email from SSM, Elspeth, Hearthie, telling me as much. This is due to a bug that I only have a little time each week to try to figure out.

    We will consider this network as you describe it to have had it’s first milestone success when 2 couples–one with a boy and one with a girl actually contact each other–through our site–and their kids meet. Even if they do not marry, it will have proven itself possible. This is essentially the traditional, courtship minded folks’ answer to online “dating.”

    I think there is a vast untapped group of people out there who would clamor for this, if only I get 1. the stupid comment bug fixed and 2. start a list of forum threads based on region for the actual contacts to occur. Mychael have made it clear that will entertain ANY serious proposition to have our own 17 year old son flown to meet a family of the right fit and caliber–as soon as we are contacted by such a family. We are willing to put our money where our mouth is. Great post, buy the way and thanks (again) for the link!

  7. @ Scott

    What exactly do you need fixed? I know some of the ins and outs of wordpress, but I’m no wizard.

    Shoot me an e-mail at deeperstrength on the gmail site, and I’ll see if I can help you or not.

  8. I will– basically upwards of 90% of people trying to post comments (including me) get a “forbidden” error even after they have been taken out of moderation. It is an intermittent problem, so it is very annoying.

  9. Nestorius

    The best way for marriage to work is to go back to the ancient ways. Marriage at a young age is much better than late marriage. If fosters the bonds between the man and his wife. Aranged marriages with the consent of both parties are good. Forced marriages are bad. But the essential point here is that women are free to do whatever they want and that is the root of all problems.

  10. femininebutnotfeminist

    Thank you for posting this Donal. It’s always encouraging when someone shows that they get it.

  11. The growing popularity of online dating seems due in part to people wanting that intermediary there to facilitate meetings between themselves and others who might be likeminded. There was a man on the radio who said he and his significant other had passed each other multiple times and had mutual friends, but ultimately “met” on a Jewish dating site for people serious about their faith and relationships. An aspect of the marriage marketplace being broken down is that those who are seriously looking don’t necessarily know how to signal to one another.

    I like the pun of the title and reference to the Hunger Games in the post. I’ve actually been thinking about writing a post about how The Hunger Games increasingly reflects the reality of our society–the sheer win or die competitiveness of it all. It’s not just marriage. To a certain extent, people either have everything in abundance, or they have nothing (or could easily lose it all). The dystopian literature that’s popular right now is reflecting something in our society’s psyche.

  12. @ Observer

    Yes, there is that whole side of it as well. The amount of bad advice out there is staggering.

  13. @ Scott

    You are welcome for the link. The work you are doing is essential to fixing the problems we face now.

    Unfortunately, I don’t have the kind of web skills that you need.

    Not sure if there is a “vast untapped group of people”, but I do agree that there are likeminded folks out there. I think that the knowledge of your project’s existence will serve as a wake-up call for a lot of folks. At least, that is my hope.

  14. Nestorious, you won’t hear any complaints from me about anything you have just said. Although I would add that if men are free to do whatever they want then you get a whole different set of problems. Both men and women need to be restricted in their behavior.

  15. @ FBNF

    You are ever so welcome.

  16. @ Denise

    I’m not so sure its the “middleman” aspect of online dating that people want, so much as the filters. When I look around at a group of young women, how do I know which ones are interested in marriage, and worthy marrying? In the past I used to be able to rely on a community network, but that is all gone now. Signalling is of course key, and sadly we don’t have proper ways to signal an interest in marriage anymore. Everything has to run through the sewer system that is the SMP.

    I think you are on to something when it comes to dystopian literature. It usually finds itself more popular when there is a general perception of something wrong in a society. We are clearly experiencing that now.

  17. deti

    count me as one of the contrarians, I suppose.

    I for one do believe that young women have it easy in this SMP. This entire SMP is set up to maximize women’s returns. If a woman really wants to marry, I believe she can get that. Now, the man might not be the top of the line model she wants. But if it’s a husband she wants, this is not a tall order. After all, we all know that even women who have self-consumed nearly all their sexual market value still marrying first time at 30, 35, even in their early 40s.

    If women in their 30s are marrying (albeit not nearly as well as they COULD have 10 years before), then why do women in their 20s have such a hard time doing so? We know the answer: choice addiction. That young, attractive woman just doesn’t want to cash in her chips when she’s 22; when she can do so at 32 with just a bit more effort.

  18. ballista74

    I for one do believe that young women have it easy in this SMP. This entire SMP is set up to maximize women’s returns. If a woman really wants to marry, I believe she can get that. Now, the man might not be the top of the line model she wants.

    Feminist rationalizations are always abound. I’ve written it before and will write it here too. Most (90-95%) women can be married before they hit their 23rd birthday if they take responsibility for their own actions. In other words, take care of themselves both physically and morally, be realistic about their prospects, prioritize marriage over being a “powerful independent woman”, don’t become part of the furniture, and so on.

    There’s a reason the “Husband Store” joke gains traction. You know, where there’s six floors and an elevator, where a woman has to either exit to a floor or exit the building. The men get progressively better as each floor comes, but the woman never exits until she hits the sixth floor where she’s greeted with a sign that says “this floor exists as proof that women are impossible to please”. All effective humour has a kernel of truth to it.

  19. @Scott

    There is a decent amount of open source social network software out there, e.g.: elgg.org or http://www.oxwall.org. Free forum software is also easy to find, e.g.: phpbb.com.

  20. Setup is also fairly simple (usually just unpack and double-click).

  21. @Scott

    What are your thoughts on sites like avemariasingles.com?

  22. MarcusD– I have only read the “about” page and the truth is, I kind of like it. Assuming the site defines “single” as “adult, non-married Catholics who are not under the authority of their parents” I think it is a fantastic idea. The statement “our members prefer courtship and romance to dating” is a good sign.

  23. Pretty accurate summary of the current state of intergender affairs. That’s why I went MGTOW, and kissed women & dating goodbye. It’s simply not a good investment for me. Too much risk & cost with very little reward.

  24. The only way shit is going to change is if vaginas start growing on trees. Learn game, make money, look good and put yourself in the greatest position for success and happiness as you possibly can.

  25. europe_here

    As a 34/M, I agree with Chad.

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