A Word Of Advice… or An Inadvertent Admission

Today’s post is inspired by an article that was linked over at Dalrock‘s blog. The article, found at a website called Girls Ask Guys, is a real gem. Without further ado:

I see a TON of guys on here who are so depressed over not having a girlfriend and are so pissed at the guys who seem to get all the girls. the reality is, you will find some one, most of you are young and you have SO much time before you actually find “the one.” Also, the guys you are all jealous of are generally not good guys. I have generally dated “bad boy” types that I am always attracted to because they’re really attractive, exciting, and don’t fawn all over me. Unfortunately, the majority of them have lied, cheated, and manipulated the shit out of our relationships. I have no doubt that I will end up with a “nice guy” and I can tell you with a fair amount of confidence that most girls will because no girl with self respect sticks around with a “bad boy” in less he reforms himself. I have to say I hope for the reformed bad boy, but he is a rare bird and once he’s reformed, who’s to say he’ll be exciting anymore? Anyway, keep hope alive you guys, most of you sound like very caring, kind, and interesting guys who have a lot to offer.


Update: update: you guys are hard to please. I am trying to say girls make mistakes with ‘bad boys” but the good guys win out in the end. I thought that got through, but for some of you I guess it didn’t and I’m sorry. I was trying to encourage you to be good to women.    3 days ago


Update: I really hit a nerve! I apologize! I would also like to clarify though: I am not a gold digger, I am not a liar, and I am not trying to change any guy that I date from the person who he is. I guess I am drawn to guys who are a little edgy and that can be tough, but hopefully I’ll end up with a guy who suits that and is also a mature and loving human being.    2 days ago


Update: YIKES.    Yesterday

I must admit, my initial reaction was pleasant surprise. It is rare to see such honesty these days, especially from a woman in the context of relationships. Even though I am revolted by her actions and her philosophy, I have to respect the chutzpah that leads her to pull back the curtain and let guys know what is really going on. One of the chief problems with women playing the AFBB (Alpha F—-, Beta Bucks) game is that they usually deny doing it. That kind of deception can sucker in and deceive naive but otherwise good men who think that these women really care for them. Honesty like this can save a lot of men from making what would probably be the worst decision of their life by marrying a former carousel rider. She is doing a public service by warning men about what is really going on in the “dating” world.

On a related note, women like this put me in a difficult position. As Denise noted here, we should be careful about confusing subjective evaluations into objective statements about another person’s worth. I believe in repentance and redemption. I believe, no, I know that people can turn their lives around. Yet I don’t see how I could ever recommend that any man ever marry this woman. As in ever. The risks associated with this woman, and those like her, are astronomical. Yes, I know she could honestly and earnestly repent. But how can any man ever know this to any reasonable degree of certainty? When a woman’s avowed life strategy is to dupe some “nice guy” into marrying her after the Bad Boys are done with her, I don’t see how she could ever be trusted in this respect. At least, not in the present environment. Perhaps a “reformed Bad Boy” would fare alright, but given her statement about him possibly no longer being exciting, even that is suspect.

So, how out of line is my thinking here? Am I being too fearful? Does it make me a hypocritical Christian? Or is this just a necessary precaution in today’s world?

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61 Comments

Filed under Alpha, Alpha Widow, Attraction, Beta, LAMPS, Masculinity, Men, Sex, Uncategorized, Women

61 responses to “A Word Of Advice… or An Inadvertent Admission

  1. @DG

    1. Not really out of line. It pays to be cautious, particularly when “exciting” is what she is looking for, instead of committment or … dare I say it, love.

    2. Fearful of what? That this woman is dropping honeyed words — giving single men hope that the nature of the females are different from what we’ve read and heard?

    3. Will a repentant woman express herself like how she did? “Sorry” and “regret” did not appear in any part of her tantalising spiel.

    4. We have one shot at marriage, honouring with our lifelong committment to a covenant that God gifted us men. Unless we get that Hosea call, it’s better to err on the side of caution.

  2. In an earlier time, reformed bad girls might be a reasonable bet given the social consequences of divorcing your husband. Now-a-days w/no fault divorce and a system that encourages couples to break up – it’d take a lot of convincing.

  3. When the “question asker” wrote this:
    “WE ARE NOT SUTS, WE JUST LIKE SEX.

    it’s clear she “doesn’t get it.”

    Nope – no wife card for you!

  4. how out of line is my thinking here? Am I being too fearful? Does it make me a hypocritical Christian? Or is this just a necessary precaution in today’s world?

    Zero, no, no, and yes.

    I don’t see how I could ever recommend that any man ever marry this woman. As in ever. The risks associated with this woman, and those like her, are astronomical

    What would worry me is less her AFBB strategy (which could be completely unintentional, given how clueless she sounds) and more her apparently total inability to see how self-contradictory her statements are. I’d hate to have her taking my order in a restaurant, much less trust her with my home and kids.

  5. Ton

    Women do not care for/ love men, or kids. That is the 1st illusion that must die.

    Reformed bad boy. That’s how the single fellas need to present themselves while y’all search.

    [DG: This is worth a post all by itself. Perhaps the following week; my next major post will provide something of a lead off point.]

    Every single/ searching brother out there should commit her three posts to heart like a Bible verse

  6. DJ

    Honestly dont marry very broken people male or female.

  7. Elspeth

    This was definitely an inadvertent admission. I don’t think these women see themselves as “duping” some nice guy sicker into marrying them, either.

    They see it as rightly changing their mating standards as they mature. In their mind it is perfectly acceptable for a 21-year-old “girl” to date (re: sleep with) bad boys. But when she becomes a woman, say 27 or 28, it’s time to put away childish things and be more mature in her approach to relationships.

    The disconnect here is that they don’t see sex as inherently something that only a mature, married woman should engage in. Marriage? Yes. Motherhood? Yes. But sex? That’s fun and fun is what young people are all about.

    *So what’s the problem, fellas?

    * I’m simply clarifying the argument. I don’t subscribe to any of their logic. Just want to get that straight.

  8. feeriker

    …but hopefully I’ll end up with a guy who suits that and is also a mature and loving human being.

    One order of fried ice, coming up.

  9. “I believe in repentance and redemption. I believe, no, I know that people can turn their lives around. Yet I don’t see how I could ever recommend that any man ever marry this woman. As in ever.”

    You are right. That’s because repentance and reformation consciously put off into the future does not negate the consequences of today’s actions. Repentance is not a strategy to enable us to do whatever we want up to the last possible moment of repentance.

  10. deti

    No, you’re not out of line here. No, you’re not being fearful. No, you’re not being hypocritical. And yes, it’s a necessary precaution.

    I’ve long argued that most women in their 20s aren’t interested in marriage. Chad put up a comment a thread or two back here that said pretty much the same thing, even about the Catholic women he was interested in.

    Anyway, the linked article puts the lie to the contention that women engage in casual sex because they’re “looking for love in all the wrong places” or because they “hope to see him again”. They’re not looking for love; they’re looking for sex – from the most attractive men they can find to give it to them. And perhaps they hope to see the guy again; but if they don’t, at least they got some sex out of it.

    For young women it truly, truly is about Alpha F**ks and Beta Bucks. Truly.

  11. they’re really attractive, exciting, and don’t fawn all over me.

    There’s nothing wrong with this list of hers of what attracts her. What’s tragic is that the only men she’s found who have these characteristics are prone to lying and cheating. Men can very much be attractive, exciting, and not fawn all over a woman without being liars and cheaters.

    Her morality is not the same as yours. Yes she can be transformed (Hope for all, Amen?) and her honesty is very useful. A chaste virgin who desires to marry young is seeking the same thing. I’ve yet to hear any woman say she’s looking for an unattractive, dull man who fawns all over her.

    I gotta agree with Ton on this one.

    Also, truth be known, she has no idea how disgusting she is. She lives in an oblivious fog without a clue the consequences of her behavior (which includes the judgement of others). Once she learns the truth (if she ever does)- that her behavior is the predictable and observable behavior of feral women, there’s a lot she can change but she’ll never be able to change her past. So it will appear to some that she is now settling down for Beta bucks, jumping off the carousal, approaching the wall, etc. or it may just be she’s a repentant sinner who is ashamed of her past but must live with it as best she can. Of course no man has to marry her and can judge her past all he wants.

    You ask: But how can any man ever know this to any reasonable degree of certainty?

    He can’t. No such thing as certainty. However, the man who does marry her can greatly affect her future behavior, as he can any woman’s. He’ll be her head and what he chooses to do with that will be up to him.

  12. Elspeth

    They’re not looking for love; they’re looking for sex – from the most attractive men they can find to give it to them. And perhaps they hope to see the guy again; but if they don’t, at least they got some sex out of it.

    Yes and no, Deti. You’re kinda sorta right and kinda sorta wrong.

    They absolutely positively hope and pray in the deepest parts of their being that those guys will stick around. However illogical it is, it’s the dream that never dies until the biological clock starts ticking louder.

    I know you don’t believe that but it’s true.

  13. And perhaps they hope to see the guy again; but if they don’t, at least they got some sex out of it.

    You’re attributing the satisfaction of release that a man experiences to women. It doesn’t work that way for women. When women are sexually satisfied, they want more. I forget where I read it, Elspeth, help me out, but it was someone talking about the stages of sexual desire in a woman. She has sex (green light), the next day is a green light, as is the next, the longer she goes without having sex the light changes, she’s not as interested. This is true of a woman in marriage and a woman having casual sex outside of marriage. So it really isn’t a nonchalant “perhaps they hope to see the guy again” – if he is the enticing guy that got her into bed, she DOES want to see him again, and again, and again. When the opportunity to see him again is denied (he “nexts” her) her hamster steps in and associates all negative emotions to that guy. Not all guys, just that one. So the next man that excites her comes around and she mistakenly believes this will be different.

  14. deti

    Elspeth:

    You’re correct; I don’t believe that these women are looking for love and for a man to stick around; because they’re not. If they were looking for love and a man who will stick around, they’d look in the places where they’d be most likely to find those things. And if they were looking for those things; they’d learn where those things are NOT after the first two or three or five times she looks for it and doesn’t find it in that place.

    Again: How many times does a slut have to have a bad boy burn her before she figures it out? Five, 10, 20 times? How many times do you need to put your hand on a stove before you figure out that it’s hot? How many times do you need to drop a ball from a tower before you figure out that it’s going to fall? And does she ever learn that that ball will fall EVERY time it is dropped? And do you need to throw yourself off that tower in order to believe that you, too, will fall if you do so? “Oh, but oh no, THIS time it’ll be DIFFERENT because I’m smarter/he’s better/I’m hotter/he’s nicer/we’re so good together”?

    Does she really expect Alpha McGorgeous to have sex with her and then fall to his knees professing undying love? Does she really expect F**kbuddy Rockbanddrummer to have sex with her and be so in awe of her that he immediately offers her a ring?

    That’s silliness, Elspeth.

  15. Elspeth

    “Oh, but oh no, THIS time it’ll be DIFFERENT because I’m smarter/he’s better/I’m hotter/he’s nicer/we’re so good together”?

    Does she really expect Alpha McGorgeous to have sex with her and then fall to his knees professing undying love? Does she really expect F**kbuddy Rockbanddrummer to have sex with her and be so in awe of her that he immediately offers her a ring?

    That’s silliness, Elspeth.

    Of course it’s silliness, Deti. Doesn’t make it any less true. You keep positing that because it’s not logical, it’s not what’s going on here. As if women have ever been praised for our sterling skill at logic.

    The girl likes what she likes. And it makes more sense to try and secure love and commitment from the kind of man she likes than to try and make herself love the kind of guys she doesn’t like.

  16. If they were looking for love and a man who will stick around, they’d look in the places where they’d be most likely to find those things.

    Like a dive bar in a big college town?

    Deti, it is clear you don’t like the truth of these things, but trying to change the truth won’t work.

    The ball doesn’t fall every time it is dropped. You can not like that sluts get married all you want but I don’t think you can deny that it happens. I’m not a unicorn. My experience was very much the same as the woman in the OP. My last was a delta who had learned to be a badboy, we had sex every single night. I couldn’t get enough of him. And, he put a ring on it after three months. Like I said above, what has happened for the last 18 years is what has made our marriage into what it is today.

    The message “it won’t work out for you” will not change feral women’s behavior. They have far too many examples of women it has worked out for.

    I’m all for slut shaming. I wish I had the internet back when I was 12. However making stuff up in the hopes of discouraging slutty behavior isn’t going to help.

  17. Ah, what a refreshing review of hypergamy and the nature of women’s dualistic sexual strategies. Isn’t it interesting how she’s lauded for her honesty, but let a man, any man, outline exactly the same thing and he’s a chauvinistic, misogynist pig for detailing the same truth.
    [DG: Ah, the FI. No matter how hard you try, you just can’t escape it, can you?]

    Silly men, the red pill is for women to explain.

    Honestly dont marry very broken people male or female.

    Appeal to false equivalency. Simplistic aphorisms only distract from the fact that women’s hypergamy and pluralistic sexual strategy is inherently ‘broken’ when accounting for the long term investment required from men.

  18. deti

    “You can not like that sluts get married all you want but I don’t think you can deny that it happens.”

    Believe you me – I KNOW that it happens. And how well did it turn out for such folks, SD? The knock down drag out fights, the tooth and nail struggles, the almost-divorces, the man’s wall-head-banging; the woman’s intractable out and out REFUSAL to submit? If you had it to do over again, would you?

  19. Do you mean would I do it all again the same?
    No. Not at all. That is why I tell my daughters everything I would want my 12 year old self to know. I hate my sin – past, present, and future. I hate what RLB had to forgive of me.

    My point to you is that the consequence of being a slut is not the inability to marry. If “it working out” = marriage. Having that marriage work out is a different conversation.

  20. Elspeth

    Two different issues here I think. The issue for Deti isn’t whether sluts get married. Of course they do, just not to the bad boy that they had hoped would come through when they were much younger.

    The issue is whether or not the ball falls every time it’s dropped. In other words, does the stupid chick’s gambles ever pay off? And the truth is that sometimes the ball doesn’t drop. Every now and again, she drops the ball from the top of the building and that guy who you wouldn’t think would bother to catch it ( why should he since he has options?), catches it.

    Then all the other girls think “If it could it happen for her, it could happen for me.” And the beat goes on.

  21. deti

    OK. So every girl is hoping for Christian Grey. And then gets disappointed when Christian Grey is every bit the fantasy he really is.

    Or she marries Christian, and he cheats on her and leaves her high and dry.

    Or she has to settle for Eddie Steadyman, whom she will frivorce in 10 years; or remain with him in a grindingly miserable marriage.

    Good luck with all that.

  22. Hmm…I’m not sure that she has a “strategy.” I don’t think she was dating those bad boys (at the time) with the idea that she would trade them in later. She seems to have realized after being burned a number of times that the attractive, exciting guys tended to be jerks and that if she wants any modicum of happiness, she’ll have to go for a nice guy. Those are pretty sucky options, so she hopes she’ll meet an attractive, exciting guy who is also honest and faithful; but she doubts she can get both in one.

    Her answer reminds me of something I read on another blog:
    http://youngmanredpill.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/why-the-manosphere-exists-in-one-post-for-beginners/

    A young woman talks about how she and her friends did date jerks but then grew up. It wasn’t a preplanned strategy, rather the accumulation of enough negative experiences to tell them they needed to try something different. They weren’t attracted to those guys because they were jerks, but because they more clearly displayed natural masculinity.

    I don’t think you’re wrong, donal, for being put off. I think the bigger issue, though, is the current chasm in men as a group between natural masculinity and having good character. Clearly women are going to be viscerally attracted to natural masculinity, which I really don’t see as wrong. But when thinking about what they want longterm, women know they need a man of character.

    Regarding what deti said about women not wanting marriage, I’d frame it like this. The woman in the post said explicitly what she really wants–a very masculine guy who is also trustworthy and faithful. That is the man she would most happily be permanently tied to. And they do exist, but as she said, seem to be rare. Current society splits those men into two, so that women will generally find one without the other. The former without the latter is compelling because of his strong will and independence, and the latter without the former is reliable but less than compelling. This would be like if all the good women were plain and out of shape, and all the really pretty women were mean-spirited and materialistic. Kind of a raw deal. You really want the best of both. Young women do not look forward to marrying someone reliable but weak-willed and controllable. So I think that what you see is young women essentially capitalizing on their fun years until they *have* to settle down because they are running out of time, and in settling, they fully expect that they will end up with someone who is nice, but perhaps just “meh.” Basically, I wonder if women aren’t putting off marriage, in part, because their options simply aren’t that attractive to them. As Elspeth said, if those bad boys stuck around, the young women would be super happy to stay with them. But they don’t. So it’s fun, fun, fun, and then when push comes to shove, do what you have to do.

    I’m not advocating this, btw.

  23. There are a few more categories than that but for the most part you are correct.
    She *could* also learn what God has to say about her role in marriage. It has this profound affect of making Eddie her Christian Grey.

    Should Eddie Steadyman learn what God has to say about his role in marriage he’ll also learn it has a profound affect of turning her into Sally Submissivehotfitsexkitten.

  24. Hmm…I’m not sure that she has a “strategy.” I don’t think she was dating those bad boys (at the time) with the idea that she would trade them in later. She seems to have realized after being burned a number of times that the attractive, exciting guys tended to be jerks and that if she wants any modicum of happiness, she’ll have to go for a nice guy. Those are pretty sucky options, so she hopes she’ll meet an attractive, exciting guy who is also honest and faithful; but she doubts she can get both in one.

    Her answer reminds me of something I read on another blog:
    http://youngmanredpill.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/why-the-manosphere-exists-in-one-post-for-beginners/

    A young woman talks about how she and her friends did date jerks but then grew up. It wasn’t a preplanned strategy, rather the accumulation of enough negative experiences to tell them they needed to try something different. They weren’t attracted to those guys because they were jerks, but because they more clearly displayed natural masculinity.

    I don’t think you’re wrong, donal, for being put off. I think the bigger issue, though, is the current chasm in men as a group between natural masculinity and having good character. Clearly women are going to be viscerally attracted to natural masculinity, which I really don’t see as wrong. But when thinking about what they want longterm, women know they need a man of character.

    Regarding what deti said about women not wanting marriage, I’d frame it like this. The woman in the post said explicitly what she really wants–a very masculine guy who is also trustworthy and faithful. That is the man she would most happily be permanently tied to. And they do exist, but as she said, seem to be rare. Current society splits those men into two, so that women will generally find one without the other. The former without the latter is compelling because of his strong will and independence, and the latter without the former is reliable but less than compelling. This would be like if all the good women were plain and out of shape, and all the really pretty women were mean-spirited and materialistic. Kind of a raw deal. You really want the best of both. Young women do not look forward to marrying someone reliable but weak-willed and controllable. So I think that what you see is young women essentially capitalizing on their fun years until they *have* to settle down because they are running out of time, and in settling, they fully expect that they will end up with someone who is nice, but perhaps just “meh.” Basically, I wonder if women aren’t putting off marriage, in part, because their options simply aren’t that attractive to them. As Elspeth said, if those bad boys stuck around, the young women would be super happy to stay with them. But they don’t. So it’s fun, fun, fun, and then when push comes to shove, do what you have to do.

    I’m not advocating this, btw.

  25. Elspeth

    In general you are right Deti. But you keep appealing to logic. That does not apply Women deal in what “could be.”

    Sometimes she married Christian Grey and he converts, and it all works out.

    Sometimes he cheats but he doesn’t leave her high and dry. Eventually they find a way to make it work.

    Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes. I’ve been married 20 years next month and I still couldn’t tell you why my husband stopped playing in a very active field of dating-dead in his tracks- for the likes of me.

    Backwards, inexperienced, kinda cute but nothing special especially compared to what he had dated before. But stop he did. And we’ve had a good marriage all things considered.

  26. deti

    Elspeth:

    I know your story. And as I’ve told you many times, your story should come with the disclaimer “Results not typical. You might not obtain these same results.”

    Most women don’t get their SAM, or their HHG. Most women get Eddie, usually after sexing – and failing to extract commitment from — Alpha, Frank, Harley and F**kbuddy . And most women deeply, deeply resent having to settle for Eddie.

  27. deti

    Elspeth:

    or, stated another way:

    Should a woman bet her life and future on maybe, MAYBE, the ball won’t fall this time, like it did 100 times before?

    Or, do you think, maybe — yeah, I’m taking a shot in the dark here — MAYBE she should count on the ball falling?

    Do you think she should go for the longshot, or the sure thing?

    Do you think she should go for George Clooney, or Eddie?

  28. Elspeth

    We both know the answer to your questions, Deti. Of course she should go for the sure thing, take the safe bet, be happy with and thankful for the nice guy.

    But I thought we were discussing what actually happens in reality rather than what should happen, sir.

    My only point here was to explain to you that women and relationships are like people who play the lottery every day. You ever stood in line at a gas station while some old dude asks for 2 of these and 3 of those and tries to find the right combination of tickets and numbers so that THIS week may be the week he hits the big one?

    It’s not logical but he does week after week. Why? Because he saw on the news last week that woman in Podunk, Mississippi who hit it big and won 43 million dollars. If it can happen for her, he figures, it can happen for me.

    Sir Deti, women do the exact. same. thing. But for some reason you find it hard to accept because it doesn’t make any logical sense.

    And I’m telling you that that doesn’t matter.This isn’t about reality. It’s about the hope of a fantasy becoming a reality, even if it’s a one in a million shot.

    They eventually give up though and Steady Eddie gets his girl after she’s spent everything she has on losing lottery tickets.

  29. Deti,

    Elspeth is right. Women are not logical creatures when it comes to love/lust/romance. Like a moth, they will always be drawn towards the flame.

  30. Girls want to be happy and feel good because they are emotional creatures.

    They know that bad boys make them happy and feel good (at least until they get pumped and dumped).

    They keep going back for more bad boys until they aren’t paid attention to by bad boys. If they don’t adjust their expectations after their attractiveness declines then they end up a spinster, or if they are able to then they settle because they take what they can get from the left over attention.

    The end.

    The biggest problem is that women are taught that their feelings are their reality and what is best for them which is not true, especially not true in regard to Christianity:

    http://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2014/01/24/anchored-emotions/

    God gave us free will to overcome our feelings and instincts. If you don’t then you live by the flesh and are of the world. A man would be wise to avoid women like this.

  31. The woman was honest, likely because she feels hot enough to snag a guy after she’s done with the bad boys. Be that as it may.

    But don’t confuse repentance with consequences. The former does not cancel out the latter. Repentance brings restoration, but it is grace the undoes damage. Even emotional fornication is damaging, but because the slut gets wired up, she thinks she’s unaffected. Wrong.

    Actions always have consequences. They’re not always clear.

  32. deti

    “ Women are not logical creatures when it comes to love/lust/romance. Like a moth, they will always be drawn towards the flame.”

    Then if women can’t rein in their emotions and decide to be ruled by them, they should not be surprised when the flame burns them and the ball falls.

    Just like the flame burns a thousand times before, and will a thousand times hence.

  33. Not sure I get the bashing of emotions. People want to be happy, period. Anyone, man or woman, who claims that they’re acting for a reason other than the pursuit of some good they see for themselves, and hence their happiness, is either about to martyr themselves or is lying.

    Furthermore, and perhaps I should just post about it, emotions are based on a construal of reality, specific conclusions we make about the world around us that then cause an emotional response. For that reason, emotions are not random, and generally are very good clues about what we perceive to be true about the people and world around us, even if on a subconscious level.

    If someone is chasing the wrong thing, it’s not because they are emotional, it’s because their perceptions of people and the world are off.

  34. Anyone, man or woman, who claims that they’re acting for a reason other than the pursuit of some good they see for themselves, and hence their happiness, is either about to martyr themselves or is lying.

    Or is a Christian who understands this life was not given to us for our happiness and comfort but to seek Him and obey Him. That we not complain to the potter for making us this way but understanding that our emotions of any given situation have almost nothing to do with his Word and calling for our lives. It’s hardly being a martyr – while it may seem like it at first and there are those who will not do so with a gracious, content heart (lost in the coveting of an easier walk), those who commit their life to obedience to God’s Word will have peace and joy <— that is what we all seek. One can not have Joy without God.

  35. @ Denise

    That’s because your frame of reference is incorrect. Chasing happiness is a sure way to fall into ruin because many of behaviors give the transient feeling of happiness and gratification — see fornication/lust, lying, stealing, sloth, pride, gluttony, etc. — but once that feeling goes away you are left with brokenness.

    Not once does God tell Christians that we are to be happy or pursue happiness. In fact, He says that life will be hard. But we are to have the joy and peace of God.

    ” For that reason, emotions are not random, and generally are very good clues about what we perceive to be true about the people and world around us, even if on a subconscious level.”

    This is absolutely wrong. God created emotions and they are good, but we are to test them against Scripture. For instance, it’s normal for most people to feel satisfaction if my enemies get hurt, but God says that I should love my enemies and do good to them that persecute me.

    Jeremiah 17:9 — King James Version (KJV)
    9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    If you put that much stock in emotions in regard to reality I very highly suggest you reconsider that stance. We are not to be slaves to our emotions or are desires.

    Read the article I wrote listed above:

    http://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2014/01/24/anchored-emotions/

  36. Wow such bad spelling and grammar in my above post.

    For instance, it’s normal for most people to feel satisfaction if [their] enemies get hurt, but God says that [we] should love [our] enemies and do good to them that persecute [us].

    We are not to be slaves to our emotions or [our] desires.

  37. @Sarah’s Daughter & @Deep Strength

    I think you both misunderstood. And perhaps I was not clear.

    One, following God is our good. God promises good things and rewards throughout Scripture for following Him. If we didn’t think we would be rewarded, we would not follow Him. And He doesn’t ask us to follow with no hope of reward. Even the martyrs see a greater good beyond their personal sacrifice.

    Furthermore, what I said about emotions is cognitive psychology. The phenomenon of emotional experience is based on our specific cognitive judgments about the world around us. It is because our conclusions about the world may be incorrect that our emotions steer us astray. They do, however, accurately speak of what we are thinking. Again, our thoughts are not truth, but nevertheless, emotions arise from those thoughts.

  38. I would add that reading Scripture would transform our minds so that we have an accurate understanding of what is and is not true about ourselves, others, and the world. It is correct that the heart is deceitful. The heart will tell you things that are false. But you see and understand God’s truth clearly, your emotions will not be false, but will be in accordance with the truth.

  39. “ Women are not logical creatures when it comes to love/lust/romance. Like a moth, they will always be drawn towards the flame.”

    If someone is chasing the wrong thing, it’s not because they are emotional, it’s because their perceptions of people and the world are off.

    Are these necessarily contradictory?

    At its basest, women will choose the reality that makes them look best. When the bad boys next her, its not her fault. Shes young and immature. When shes ready to settle with a beta, shes all grown up now.

    Moral agency is twisted to explain whatever irrationality she expresses.

  40. Elspeth

    I understood you Denise. We are to grow in grace to the point where we can set aside our desires for God’s will. This is true. But anyone so “holy” as to claim that they never do anything for reasons of self-interest is someone I wouldn’t trust any further than I could throw them.

    Secondly, feelings are no to dictate our responses, but they are honest indicators of something we need to address, albeit in a godly, God-glorifying way.

    The problem is that far too many of us have been trained to believe that our honest feelings are vehicles through which we can discern Ultimate Truth. They are absolutely NOT able to do that, nor were they given to us for that purpose. But they were given to us by God so demonizing or worshiping them rather than using them for the purpose they were given are both wrong headed strategies.

  41. Ton

    Delaying short term gratification for something better is not exclusively Christian or Bibical.

  42. @Elspeth | I agree.

    @an observer

    “At its basest, women will choose the reality that makes them look best. When the bad boys next her, its not her fault. Shes young and immature. When shes ready to settle with a beta, shes all grown up now…Moral agency is twisted to explain whatever irrationality she expresses.”

    It is what it is. An annoying response, I know. Yes, people often start of immature and then have to learn hard lessons through experience. It’s life. But beyond that, as I mentioned in my rather longwinded post above, I’m not sure that what the girl in the post did is at all irrational. She knows what kind of man she wants, as do her friends. She attempts to be with exactly that type of man, who she likes *in spite* of his jerkiness, not because of it. The qualities she’s looking for ideally are not bad (confidence, boldness, strength of will, etc.). But those guys have learned that they possess traits women like and take advantage of that fact. So, she learns that perhaps those men aren’t going to work for her in the long run. She figures she’ll have to compromise to get what she needs rather than what she wants. Where’s the irrationality in that?

    I think that many men simply dislike and resent the fact that the nice guy persona, contrary to what they learned, is not on its own very attractive to women.

  43. No. A wise man uses discernment when choosing a wife. A man is free to marry whomever he wants, but he has to live with the consequences of his decisions. A lot of women, whether they are Christian or not, do not like the fact that men have criteria when looking for a wife. But they (women) have nothing to lose. A man, on the other hand, everything is at stake. If a man is smart, he’ll be selective. Women like the one described above are dangerous.

  44. So much happens while the internet is down…anyhoo, she’s not trying “to dupe some “nice guy” into marrying her after the Bad Boys are done with her”. She doesn’t see that they’re done with her. She’s hoping that the power of her “magic hooha” will transform him into a bad boy who is now totally devoted to her. She doesn’t want him to transform into “nice guy”. She wants him to become a romancelandia version of bad boy.

  45. @deti said: Does she really expect Alpha McGorgeous to have sex with her and then fall to his knees professing undying love? Does she really expect F**kbuddy Rockbanddrummer to have sex with her and be so in awe of her that he immediately offers her a ring?

    This has been the story line in EVERY romance novel I have read (I have read several recently for research into a post–talk about taking one for the team 😦 ).

    * Alpha bad-boy (usually older and worldly)
    * Heroine is young and innocent (often little more than a girl)
    * Circumstances throw them together
    * Alpha rapes the heroine (not portrayed as rape, rather as the heroine can’t resist his masculine power, but by dispassionate standards it’s a rape)
    * Alpha is torn between his need for independence and the trans formative experience of sex with the heroine
    * Alpha decides he can’t live without the heroine and declares his love for her
    * They may (or may not) get engaged or married, but a lifetime commitment by the alpha is implied

    Two things to note:

    1) The heroine acquires a lifetime commitment from the alpha using sex.
    2) Marriage may be mentioned, but what comes after the marriage ceremony is never contemplated.

  46. Ton

    Deti, girls think they can lay with bad boys and find love at the same time, regardless of how infrequently that works out. Rationalization hamster in full effect. Most girls hold mutually exclusive ideas on every topic

    Yes men are pissed. They were lied to, the lie was easy to believe, gave them an easy out to manhood, one that made sense to them and now they are cranky about it. Most betas still think their beta male selves should be the rational choice. Which is false, but they believe it so they are still cranky

  47. deti

    8to12 and Ton:

    Yes, true. The point is that women completely overlook all logic and forge ahead anyway. They ignore the good man and sex up the alpha bad boy KNOWING full well he will pump and dump her.

  48. @Deti: Most women are stupid.

  49. Ton

    No brother I don’t think beta men are necessarily the logical choice.

  50. I’m not sure that what the girl in the post did is at all irrational.

    We could debate that all day. But in some ways, the point is irrelevant.

    Either the woman is accountable for immature, irresponsible choices, or she isnt. Either she is a strong, independent woman with full moral agency, who accepts that actions have consequences, and that every sexual partner is doing her harm.

    I could suggest everything we do is irrational, because none of us has perfect knowledge. But rebellious women are instructed to disregard counsel and navigate by the changing sea of emotion. Thats how they end up shagging the bad boys that made them tingle.

    I could argue we all have limited rationality, but that some peoples limits are different to others.

    That she acted irrationally is currently counter cultural. Expressing the desires of ones ID is where its at. Never mind it causes damage. It feels good, and thats all that matters.

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