I Feel Like I Forgot Something

[Slight change of plans. The post I alluded to on Sunday is being pushed back, to accommodate this shorter post and a future one on Game. Not sure when I will finish it.]

One of the various proverbs that sometimes appears around the Manosphere is that “Women are True to Themselves.” I prefer a slightly different take:

Women are True to their Feelings

Given what is known about female nature, I think this more accurately conveys the scope of the female psyche. Women are guided by, and defined by, their feelings. This extends to every aspect of their lives. Including their memories.

In his latest post, Ace over at 80 Proof Oinomancy talks about how social media sites like Facebook help women develop a special type of amnesia:

An electronic Lethe, in which the constant immersion imparts forgetfulness that there are many more reading their confessions, rages, demands, diatribes, attacks and cuts than they believe.

I think that this phenomenon goes further than just social media though. Or that men might be watching.  It is my belief that the centrality of feelings to the female mind lets them forget nearly anything.

What do I mean by this?

Simple: A woman’s memory is largely tied to her feelings at the time of that memory. A woman will actively remember something if she feels an emotional connection or stimulation similar to what she experienced when the previous event took place. Furthermore, it is the emotions connected to the event that resonate the most with her, and the two are inextricably linked in a woman’s mind. If a memory is forced to her mind, but her present emotional state differs greatly from that in the memory, then something special happens. The woman develops a unique form of amnesia that conveniently allows her to “forget” that memory, or at least, the important parts of it.

This explains why women are true to their feelings, and not their word. Especially in the context of a promise. Or a vow.

A married woman who decides to blow up her marriage because she is unhaaaaaaapy doesn’t really remember her vows, at least, not in the sense that a man would. This is because her present feelings (unhappiness, discontent, unease) do not match the emotions that were associated with her wedding (happiness, joy, excitement, contentment) when she gave those vows. So when someone reminds her of her vows, the disparity in feelings between now and then are such that she forms a mental barrier to that past memory. Amnesia clouds her mind, and those sacred vows just fade away into the mist of forgetfulness.

Thankfully I have not seen that particular example myself. But I have seen others.

I have had women make promises to me, promises born of feelings. And then, when those feelings were long gone, the promises were too. They disappeared into the rabbit hole of their minds. Of course, I can remind women of these promises. Sometimes I do. But they only remember the words they said, not the intent behind it, because that is wrapped up in a feeling long gone. Unless I keep harping on them, they will continue to forget. No matter how “important” those promises were at the time.

Because it was never the promise that was important. It was the feeling the promise imparted in them.

[This seems especially common when the promise was made when the woman wanted to feel good about my feeling bad. Or to be more accurate, when she felt bad about my feeling bad. ]

Truth is, if you want a woman to actually remember something, to really remember it…. Fully…. Clearly…. Then you must not only remind her of what was said or done, but how she felt.

She is a creature of feelings.

Recreate the feeling… and you recreate the memory.

Update: Elspeth has an post that touches on managing emotions in marriage which is relevant: Managing our Emotional “Needs”. Another post can be found here.

Ace also touched on something similar in a different post as well.

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33 Comments

Filed under Femininity, Marriage, Moral Agency, Red Pill, Women

33 responses to “I Feel Like I Forgot Something

  1. You’re welcome Ace.

    I was actually trying to recreate something of your style with this post, as it seemed appropriate for the topic and what I was writing.

    And yes, that link gets to something similar. Memory and feeling are inextricably linked in women. Something men must learn and then always keep in mind.

  2. I’m honored, Donal.

    Agreed, it’s something to be kept in mind.

    Your timing is serendipitous, as I was just complimenting you IRL.

    I was saying how I very much enjoy/appreciate when you analyze my work, fill in the “negative space” for others and blend it with your ideas.

    You’re a reader for which I am supremely grateful.

  3. lauratheringmistress

    This is why I recommend making vows in a foreign language. It would be impossible to forget mine. I had to spend an awful lot of time getting the Latin right.

    You’re right about memory though. There are three factors that affect memory. Repetition (or sometimes, duration) is one. I am never going to forget “accipe hunc annulo” for the rest of life. Another is intensity. That’s where intense emotions come in. I expect that this is why many remember such moments. Humor or fear can have the same effect. Also, women have a protective feature to their memory that edits out pain. This is a feature, not a bug. Otherwise we wouldn’t endure childbirth more than once.

    I don’t personally base the value of a vow though on how sincere I felt at the time. I go to church even on the days I doubt God’s existence. Why should I abandon any other vow made before God and men? I think it has to do not worth how intensely one feels about it but how solemn the vow is. I don’t drink soda anymore because of a solemn vow to quit if my son recovered from his concussion. He’s fine now. It’s possibly superstition, but I’m not about to go back to drinking Dr Pepper. God held to his promises. I’ll hold to mine.

  4. Lyn87

    Apropos of nothing…

    I’ll probably remember my “accipe hunc annulo” moment for a while, too, but for a different reason (although we said our vows in English). The annulo my wife put on my finger was borrowed: my wife’s parents didn’t think she would go through with it, so they cancelled the order for my ring a day or two before the wedding without telling anyone. We discovered that when the wedding was about to start and there was no ring. They ‘fessed up as the guests were arriving, so we had to borrow my brother-in-law’s ring for the ceremony. His hands are much larger than mine, so I had to keep my left hand in a fist or it would have rolled across the church during the wedding: it was like having a gold hula-hoop on my hand. I gave it back to him in the reception line.

    It seems funnier now that it did at the time.

  5. jack

    For women, emotion is empiricism.

    Don’t bother proving it to her mind, prove it to her emotions.

  6. I was saying how I very much enjoy/appreciate when you analyze my work, fill in the “negative space” for others and blend it with your ideas.

    You’re a reader for which I am supremely grateful.

    Beautifully done Ace. Truly masterful. In the same breath you compliment me and also shame me into commenting more often at your blog.

    I tip my hat to you sir.

  7. @ Laura

    Also, women have a protective feature to their memory that edits out pain. This is a feature, not a bug. Otherwise we wouldn’t endure childbirth more than once.

    I suspect that pain is only one negative experience which is filtered out amongst many. Rollo’s “War Brides” hypothesis would be another example of the women necessarily being able to filter out something terrible. In that case the loss of a previous lover and being acquired by another male or males.

    [I know that is not where you were going with your comment but you provided a suitable jumping off point.]

    I see nothing wrong with your self-imposed soda ban. God takes oaths very seriously. No reason to do otherwise.

    Oh, and I like the idea of vows being in another language.

  8. Ton

    I agree Donal. By and large women cannot be true to themselves because they lack the capacity to come to any actual self awareness. The hamster drives many things beyond rationalizing their tingles

  9. Neguy

    My experience with women suggests that they are incapable of making promises or agreements, at least of the personal variety. No matter what they say, they always reserve the right to change their mind later if their feelings change. In fact, I’ve come to understand that whenever a woman promises to do something, it’s not really a promise at all, but rather a way of expressing the intensity of her present emotions, or a vague expression of her current intent. Treat it as a genuine promise at your peril.

  10. While I would agree that women are emotional creatures, I don’t see this as necessarily a bad thing. When my husband left I had so many people just incredulous that I wasn’t on a vehement tear, but you see, I couldn’t – and I couldn’t because of feelings. I had lost my father not so long prior and felt his loss terribly. I can recall, as clear as day, desperately not wanting my girls to experience even a fraction of the loss of their dad that I felt in the loss of mine. I don’t know that we are necessarily controlled by our feelings, but we are quite adept at using them for our purposes, both positive and negative.

  11. earl

    And remember….

    They get to vote.

    No wonder politicians are nothing more than American Idol contestants.

  12. @ Ton

    Actually, women can be true to themselves Ton. Because for women, themselves = their feelings. As for self-awareness… I’ve met some women who are self-aware, at least, as self-aware as women can be.

  13. @Neguy

    In fact, I’ve come to understand that whenever a woman promises to do something, it’s not really a promise at all, but rather a way of expressing the intensity of her present emotions, or a vague expression of her current intent.

    I have experienced this as well. In fact, it is part of the reason I wrote this post to begin with.

  14. Because for women, themselves = their feelings

    You know, it is possible for women to manage this and not be like a weather vane in a storm, to borrow the metaphor from some guy at SSM’s.

    It is entirely possible for a woman to learn through prayer and guidance to be a woman of her word, and to make the distinction between the way something makes her feel and the reality of the thing.

    http://lovingintheruins.wordpress.com/2013/11/04/managing-our-emotional-needs/

  15. @ Elspeth

    Agreed. That is a vital lesson for any young woman to learn. Sadly, few if any are taught such today. And as Tempest has found out recently, few show a real willingness to learn.

    Still, it is also important to remember that the centrality of feelings lies at the base nature of women. You can override base instincts, but you can never eliminate them. One must always be on guard, lest they surface again.

  16. Lyn87

    One must always be on guard, lest they surface again.

    One of the great truisms of combat is that in extreme circumstances you will revert to your training. If you are insufficiently trained, you will revert to instinct, which is likely to get you killed if your opponent is sufficiently trained.

    People can be trained to do things that are wildly at odds with their instincts with sufficient training. When I rolled into what appeared to be an ambush in Afghanistan, I didn’t duck behind cover (which would have been the appropriate response had I not been armed) – I brought my weapon up to engage the target. That’s not because I wanted to expose my head to the guy with the pistol, but because engaging the target is the best way to react, and I had done the draw-and-shoot drill so many thousand times that I initiated the action without the slightest hesitation.

    That works in other ways as well. When young people are trained to act in a certain way, with penalties for doing poorly and rewards for doing well, they become habit. Another factor is that when the chips are down, you will act in accordance with your most deeply held beliefs. If a young woman knows that fornication is wrong – and that there’s no way she’s going to give it up – all the “alpha swagger” and “game” and “dark triads” and “negs” in the world are just so much white noise – no more persuasive than the buzzing of a fly.

    Instill the values and train the actions. Too bad feminist churchians have largely given up on both.

  17. Thanks for the nod, Donal. You know, this one was probably better than the first one I linked to. More to the point I think.:

    http://traditionalchristianity.wordpress.com/2013/06/17/what-do-our-emotions-need/

    As you might have guessed, this is one of my *things*. I do believe women can be more than emotional hostages. And I know we’re dicussing women here but if you look at that one, don’t neglect to check out the link included to Alte’s Please Don’t Wife That Up.

  18. Thank you Elspeth. I included that link as well.

  19. “By and large women cannot be true to themselves because they lack the capacity to come to any actual self awareness.”

    When I see the term “self-awareness”- especially when connected with the idea of an innate lack of capacity – the first thing that comes to mind is something like a cat, which knows where and how to find food and shelter and can solve minor puzzles that are related to obtaining said food and shelter, but which has no appreciation for or ability to engage in abstract thought.

    It seems… odd… to say the least to apply that image to a human being (much less to an entire class of them, so if you wouldn’t mind clarifying…

    What do you mean by “self-awareness”?

  20. Ton

    I think we are saying the same thing Donal.

    If such things are possible Elspeth, why do men only read of such rare creatures on the interwebz?

  21. @ Ton:

    The fact that a thing is harder or requires more focus doesn’t mean it is impossible. It just means fewer people will be inclined to be bothered to do the work.

  22. The filing system for women is an emotional one. Those are the meta categories for filing memories. Men use a system that can also be confusing, but it isnt fluid. Men file by chronology, by characters involved, by subject (money, sex, etc) etc. The filing tree hierarchy for men can get wacky because some things go in many categories.

    Women can see some (they consider) successful rationalization of a behavior, pull out an old file that is a memory of a mistake and refile it in a “better” file because they now have cover.

    Interestingly they can do this file flipping either inadvertently, or on the fly as needed. Its amazing to behold. The phrase “whatever it takes” fits this approach to achieviendo.

  23. Maeve, with respect, that example does not really refute what Donal said. It supports it. because even your “strategy” was informed by feelings.

    BIG like for Neguy about promises

  24. Elspeth

    Maeve, with respect, that example does not really refute what Donal said. It supports it. because even your “strategy” was informed by feelings.

    With all due respect Empath,

    Maeve was quite clear in her comment that she wasn’t trying to refute what Donal said at all. She said her strategy was informed by her feelings. She was just noting that in that particular instance, it wasn’t necessarily a bad thing.

    She’s absolutely right. Feelings are not inherently bad, and when you learn to file them properly (and I assert that even a woman is capable of this), they can be a source of something useful.Men and women process thing differently and there is nothing wrong with that so long as we strive to be people of virtue and strong character.

    I know for certain that my husband has no interest in being married to a man with breasts and a uterus. He sometimes finds my ways exasperating yes, but is as likely to find them entertaining and endearing.

  25. Greg C

    Donal, I believe this to be true. I believe that what God had meant for good, females emotions and feelings, the spirit of Jezebel/feminism has been used for bad, through the use of false emotions and false feelings.
    Been frivorced now almost 5 years, but 15 years ago when I dated and married the ex, she exhibited every bit the character of a Godly woman. For 8 years or so, our marriage reflected a model that even Barb and Dennis Rainy would be proud of. I went back and forth in my mind, is she really a Christian and lost her faith, or never was one. Both seem impossible. I have concluded, a few months ago, that one real possibility is that the day she accepted Christ for her salvation, she did so in a whirlwind of emotion, not being able to rationalize what she in fact was doing. One part of scripture that really stood out to me, was when Jesus pointed out that it is impossible for a good tree to produce bad fruit. Did I mention my ex was an extremely emotional person? Could be very up, or very down, mostly up, but borderline bi-polar I suppose.

  26. femininebutnotfeminist

    It’s true that a woman’s emotions tend to influence her decisions. Just look at the way our brains are designed compared to mens’. When a man makes a decision it rarely involves his emotions because the thought doesn’t even go near the small emotional part of his brain before he reaches a conclusion. As for women, we have a much larger emotional part of our brain with far more “connections” there, and a thought always passes through it before we reach a conclusion. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing because it’s how God created us. Not wrong, just different. We just need to recognize this and learn to use our “powers” for good instead of evil.

    I’ve noticed with myself that if I’m feeling overwhelmed with an emotion my ability to think reasonably is severely compromised, and I know I’m not the only one. We women really need to learn this about ourselves and do whatever it takes to learn to not be ruled by our emotions as much as possible, and be willing to humbly appologize when we realize we messed up big time and hurt someone or put them in a difficult position while we were being emotional and irrational. This is absolutely not easy to do, but it is absolutely worthwhile.

    An interesting idea… during a recent conversation with a man I’m getting to know, he nudged me to an understanding of the “emotional benefits” to a wife who submits to her husband rather than trying to take on the responsibility of being in charge herself. The point I’m making is that if a man thinks he’s fighting a losing battle with his woman’s emotions, he could effectively appeal to them to make his points and get her back in line under him. Just a thought.

  27. Ton

    Well I reckon if our focus is correct we can find pots of gold at the end of every rainbow too.

  28. femininebutnotfeminist

    *** ah, that part about it not being easy to do but is worthwhile was in regards to us learning to not be ruled by our emotions, NOT the part about apologizing when we were wrong. This should be easy to do.

  29. femininebutnotfeminist

    Also, what Laura said about us having a protective feature that allows us to edit out pain is soooo true. It works with other negative emotions sometimes as well when they get too intense. It’s a way to keep us from being overloaded (over the long term, not necessarily the short term) so we don’t go insane I think. Unlike men, women are sometimes bombarded with their emotions and it gets to be too much after a while. Think of a computer that has several windows open at once with multiple pop-ups that keep harrassing you at random, and you have the female mind. Sometimes the best thing to do is just turn the stinking thing off for a while to give yourself a break, which is what Laura meant I think.

  30. Obliterated

    Over Christmas, I found myself in similar conflicts with my mom and sister as I have dealt with before, many times over. During the discussion, I found myself just plain shocked at their complete inability to separate their feeeelings about what happened from reality. I would say, “I know you felt like that was what I meant when I said that, but it was not,” to which they would reply in shrieking tones, “Don’t you see that you are INVALIDATING our FEELINGS when you say that?!!” Later, my husband pointed out that my daughter had been scrolling through my sister’s pictures on her phone and he saw a pic saved with a meme that said, ” If I feel it, it’s true.” Ohhhhhhh, well, THAT explains a lot! What a lie from the devil! after reading posts like this, it’s no wonder my friends think my devotion to the Lord is “extreme.” Because I don’t bend to the will of the ever-important FEEEEEELINGS! Ugh. Honestly, this fact about women never ceases to disgust me and infuriate me.

    I’m thinking perhaps I can send this post to a couple of ladies in my life who may be able to receive it with grace.

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