Ready Made For Me, Not For Thee…

[Ed: This post has been updated. See the bottom for the update.]

Something which struck me in my last post, Some Assembly Required, is that while I (and those like me) will likely have to “train up” a woman to fit my (our) criteria for a good wife, I (we) must be ready-made myself (ourselves) for this to begin. In order for the process talked about in that post to work at all, men  have to be actualized masculine man beforehand.* When you think about it, how is this not the Feminine Imperative at play? Stop and think about what was discussed and now try to explain it in stark, raw terms. It would look something like this:

High-value or potential high-value man invests time and resources in woman who is presently not suited for marriage, with uncertain results.**

Can anyone imagine that this scenario would ever be reversed successfully?  That is, you have high-value women who invest time and resources in men of questionable value with uncertain results. Does anyone see that working more than once in a blue moon? In fact, doesn’t it sound like one of the more common refrains from the Christian manosphere? You know, “good Christian girls” chasing after bad boys in order to convert them and reform them? We all know how it ends: poorly.

Life is not fair, and circumstances like this are proof-positive of that fact. That God-fearing men have to carry on such as this only goes to show just how far we have fallen.*** And how much, MGTOW protestations to the contrary, men really do need women. Otherwise, why would we ever go through all of this trouble?

I’m going to stop now, because I’m just rambling at this point. But expect to see more incoherent posts over the next few days. Do not be surprised if some are quite dark.

*[Yes, I know that marriage is a learning experience, and that I will have to adjust my behavior as well. But it isn’t nearly the same thing, because that will come as a result of marriage, not as part of a process to make me worthy/capable of marriage.]

Update: One reader interpreted this post to be something of a “woe-is-me” lament. If others had the same impression, then I apologize. It was not my intent. Alas, this post was a victim to poor editing and content control on my part. I will endeavor to avoid such mistakes in the future. This post was not meant as a lament but as an observation. Several observations, really.

The first is that this process is not really one between equals. That is, a man and a woman who are equally unready for marriage working together to try and make each other ready for marriage. That wasn’t the process which I examined, or what The Woman Margery suggested. Instead, you have a man who is already (sufficiently) prepared/suitable for marriage finding a woman who isn’t and helping/guiding her to become ready to be his wife.

The second is that the reverse scenario doesn’t seem to be one likely to succeed. Sunshine Mary suggested that what I proposed was similar to women in the past marrying men whose final value was uncertain, and given the language I used, this was an entirely correct response. However, the corrected language (see above) makes it clear that the scenario is about a man suited for marriage investing time and resources in a woman who isn’t ready/suited for marriage at that time. The reverse is a woman investing time/resources in a man who isn’t ready/suited for marriage. That is far afield from the scenario SSM described. While the man’s value might be uncertain when a woman marries young, he was often still suited for marrage (in that he was raised by his parents properly). The actual reverse scenario is one that is generally recognized to be a foolhardy plan, at best. Certainly one that no one would encourage any woman to follow. And yet here we had people seriously discussing the scenario from a male-led perspective.

The third is the novelty of this all. It is true that a husband always needed to have some kind of leadership role over his wife, to the point of guiding her and correcting her. The definition of husband as a transitive verb from Merriam Webster defines it as : to manage prudently and economically. And so it has been, and will continue to be. But what Margery suggested, and I discussed, in the last post was something more. It was a man taking over a role that beforehand would have been the sole responsibility of a woman’s parents and extended family: making her ready for marriage in the first place. Grooming her for marriage, essentially. All without actually marrying her. While I cannot think of any examples of this happening in Scripture, perhaps I am forgetting one or more. So if someone does know of one, it would be appreciated if they alerted me to its location in a comment. But even outside the Bible, I am having trouble thinking of similar examples of this process being conducted in any other culture.

** I corrected it to fix the issue that Sunshine Mary spotted.

*** Sentence corrected to be more humble.

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15 Comments

Filed under Marriage, Men, Red Pill, Women

15 responses to “Ready Made For Me, Not For Thee…

  1. ballista74

    The reverse scenario as described here is in fact feminism in its truest form, details of which (using examples) are addressed here.

  2. But expect to see more incoherent posts over the next few days. Do not be surprised if some are quite dark.

    Write what you gotta write.

  3. Interesting, I never caught on to that, but that is true. I agree.

  4. Yup.

    And it makes complete sense that it’s structured this way. In a healthy society; it is more that a young woman with high value (but more still to gain) would pick a young man that shows potential. Right now with marriage put off women lose value while men are forced to realize their value without much promise of ever realizing the benefits of why they’re doing so.

    It’s very sad. The human soul isn’t meant to be apart that long – I believe we’d naturally be called to marriage or the priesthood much earlier. I honestly think this is why the vocations suffer to. How is one supposed to tell if they’re called to marriage or the priesthood in our society? God’s will, ultimately, but it’s hard to hear that particular call either way with all the shouting of the world to wait, to be yourself, to stop judging, to realize yourself before marriage, etc.

  5. The other frustrating thing is that being ready made is not as much of an advantage you think it would be.

    Women seem to flip flop between wanting potential and a man that is ready made…and their actions reflect their attitude (age) at the time.

  6. deti

    “Can anyone imagine that this scenario would ever be reversed successfully? That is, you have high-value women who invest time and resources in men of questionable value with uncertain results.”

    The only time this ever happens is mothers with their sons. But even then, the mothers are (or are supposed to be) proxies for the sons’ fathers.

  7. Can anyone imagine that this scenario would ever be reversed successfully? That is, you have high-value women who invest time and resources in men of questionable value with uncertain results. Does anyone see that working more than once in a blue moon?

    Well, in a way, isn’t that what a woman used to do by marrying young to a man who was also young? Back in the day, young women sometimes had jobs at the beginning of their marriages in order to help their husbands get through school and get established in their work. Wouldn’t that sort of be similar? She would be investing in him without being absolutely certain that it would ever pay off. Maybe my thinking is not correct here?

  8. From a literal reading of my question you would be correct SSM. I made one of those “irreducible errors” myself here.

    I shouldn’t have used the phrase “questionable value.” That was too neutral. Instead I should have just said “essentially unmarriageable at this point.”

  9. One big problem with men trying to “train up” a wife — aside from the fact that it’s not natural — is that most men today are pretty clueless too. Even those of us in the manosphere who have been studying this stuff for a while seem to be flailing around the dark sometimes. We pore over and debate scripture and tradition, parse out exactly what works and doesn’t work, and make long lists of prerequisites and deal-breakers. We put in loads of effort to figure out the stuff our grandparents seemed to just “get” by the time they were 16 or so. Starting from scratch (or worse) as we are, it’s hard enough to figure out everything a man should be, let alone what a woman should be too.

    Bringing up my grandparents reminds me, though, that “ready for marriage” didn’t used to be such a tall order. Really, it should come down to three basic things:

    1) I have determined that marriage is my vocation — I have not been called to religious life, and living alone and celibate for the rest of my life is unimaginable.

    2) I am ready to support a wife.

    3) I will be ready to support a wife and child in 9 months.

    That’s what they considered “ready for marriage.” They didn’t get caught up in lots of navel-gazing about whether they were mature enough yet or had seen enough of the world. If they found someone they wanted to marry, they hurried up and got mature so they could get on with it.

    Of course, they had the benefit of a society that supported them both positively by encouraging family formation and negatively by penalizing anti-family behavior. We don’t have that — we have the opposite, to a large extent — so we have to come up with enough willpower and commitment to make up for that from within ourselves, or from a few close friends or distant bloggers. That does make it harder, but I still find myself thinking it should be as simple as saying, “Look, I want to get married, you want to get married, we like each other, so what’s left to figure out?”

  10. @ Cail

    One big problem with men trying to “train up” a wife — aside from the fact that it’s not natural — is that most men today are pretty clueless too. Even those of us in the manosphere who have been studying this stuff for a while seem to be flailing around the dark sometimes. We pore over and debate scripture and tradition, parse out exactly what works and doesn’t work, and make long lists of prerequisites and deal-breakers. We put in loads of effort to figure out the stuff our grandparents seemed to just “get” by the time they were 16 or so. Starting from scratch (or worse) as we are, it’s hard enough to figure out everything a man should be, let alone what a woman should be too.

    An excellent summation of the difficulties involved in a such a process.

    That does make it harder, but I still find myself thinking it should be as simple as saying, “Look, I want to get married, you want to get married, we like each other, so what’s left to figure out?”

    When you think about it, our present predicament is one that goes to show just how important all of those really are. Past generations took them for granted, and we now pay the price for that.

  11. Ton

    Cail the big problem with men in the man o sphere is they love words over action and debating on the interwbz is their priority. If they spent less time thinking, worrying and questing for the prefect solution, the perfect Bible verse, the perfect rational for going after their desires, and more time implementing a workable plan ( & changing gears on the fly when required), men would be much closer to their goal. And likely happier

    The military tells young combat leaders a good plan implemented right away is superior to a perfect plan implemented to late. Folks should ponder on that for a bit.

  12. Ton, you may be right, but how can you tell which guys aren’t going out and implementing their words in real life?

    Discussion is useful because, as I said, most guys really don’t know what actions they should be taking — or worse, they’ve been taught actions that are harmful, like appearing for every first date with flowers. We’re talking to learn from each other. Yes, it’s easy to fall into the rut of talking until you think you have it all figured out. I’m susceptible to perfectionism myself. But for all I know, most of the guys here are going out and applying what they’re learning here to meeting women and ordering their relationships with them. I know I have been — maybe not as quickly as I could have, but it is making a difference.

  13. earl

    “The military tells young combat leaders a good plan implemented right away is superior to a perfect plan implemented to late. Folks should ponder on that for a bit.”

    That is by far my favorite General Patton quote.

    And he’s right…action now with a good plan and some improvisation is better than sitting around thinking about the perfect strategy.

    Which is why game for me is saying “hi” to a chick and letting the chips fall…instead of coming up with some perfect opener.

  14. I was trying to think of examples of men marrying women and trying to “train them up” in virtue/wife-ness, and then it hit me why I couldn’t: the women who are hot enough that a man would try to do that wouldn’t date the man who would try to do that. Say the guy is thinking, “Well, I’m a 7 as a husband prospect, and she’s a 9 in hotness but a 3 in wife-suitability, so if I can teach her to be a good wife, I’ll hit the jackpot!” In that case, she’s thinking, “I’m a 9 in hotness; if I put some effort into it, I can nail down a 10!” She’s not even seeing the 7 with his grand dreams.

    We see it plenty the other way, of course: the church girl from a good family who starts dating the heathen ex-con and tells herself she’s going to convert him religiously, socially, and occupationally into the perfect husband, while retaining the bad-boy qualities that drew her to him — jackpot! That never works either, but they do try, and the men are willing to play along, because, sex.

  15. @ Ton

    Your advice is solid and an ever important reminder. Like Cail, I sometimes fall into the rut of developing a “perfect strategy.” Fortunately, I have been slowly but surely fixing that mindset and adopting one that emphasizes the “good plan implemented right away” mentality. I still need to work on it, but I would like to think I’ve made some progress.

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