The Answer is No

The question being, of course, the subject of a previous post: Should a Single Woman Know Where She Ranks on the “1-10 Scale”?

After thinking it over further, and reading what others have said on the subject, I have come to the conclusion that a woman shouldn’t try and find out her number on the scale. Here are some of the reasons why she shouldn’t try:

1) The scale is highly subjective. Once I talked with several women who had investigated their “number” on the scale, I quickly realized how subjective it was. Men really do have a wide variety of tastes and preferences when it comes to women, and this impacts the scale tremendously. It really requires a large sample of men whose answers you average together to get an accurate picture. And even then, that is an average. You have no guarantee that a man whom you are trying to attract will see you as a “7”, even though that is what your average is. This difficulty is also compounded by the fact that many men will let biases about desirability impact their answers. They will let preferences for non-attraction features of a woman (her dress, for example, or some part of her personality) get in the way of their analysis.

2) Many women won’t use this knowledge in a helpful manner. Or, as Cane Caldo puts it:

Women are crazy.

Sadly, they will not use this information to tailor their efforts to marry towards a man around their value. Instead, you will get something like this:

Wherever you go, if the threads of conversation veer into the importance of the 1-10 scale, the women start throwing out their numbers, bolstering each other, etc. I’m speaking of Christian, married, and ostensibly sane women. (And perhaps they are; with passing moments of madness.) You can’t stop them from wanting to know; from trying to dictate; from competing with each other, and trying to make sure no one gets too far ahead of the fold. They’ll protest that they don’t mean to be competitive. As the saying goes: “Numbers don’t lie”, and self-referentially invoking the 1-10 scale is nothing but numbers. So what we see here is that, untrained, women are short sighted, vain, and envious; which looks a lot like cruelty.

The “1-10 scale” is a male invention, and serves male needs. Dare I say it, perhaps it should stay in the hands of men. Women are not apt to use it as they should, and would in fact be better off not having it at all.

3) Knowing her “number” doesn’t actually do a woman much good. For example,  it doesn’t help her identify men in her SMP/MMP range, because discerning male SMP/MMP is very difficult. So even if she knows she is a “6”, she won’t necessarily be able to identify which men are “6s” that she should pay attention to. Even if it did, if she were to ignore men above her in value, she would risk missing the attentions of one who does find her worth marrying.

4) There is always the danger of receiving bad information. A woman who has an inaccurate assessment of her SMV is in far worse of a position than a woman who has not idea at all.

5) Lastly, there are more important matters that women can focus on if they want to marry. The most critical is to bump up her MMV. Worrying over attractiveness accomplishes little for a woman. Unless she is unfit and/or overweight, there is actually little she can do to change her attractiveness. Elspeth put it bluntly:

Women should endeavor to be useful rather than just pretty. Do your best and leave it at that.

What Elsepth is talking about here is desirability. She is advising women to focus on those traits they have the most control over, and which are critical in convincing a man that you are worth investing in. Looks fade over time, even the densest man knows that. They get our initial attention, but it is your personality and skill-set that makes you worth keeping around. Invest your time and efforts there, and the dividends will be great.

In closing, I leave you with these lovely words courtesy of Embrace your femininity:

Physical beauty is not enough to make you a beautiful person, the heart must also be beautiful so that your beauty radiates from within, in our thoughts and deeds. So I have thought about whether women need to know their “number”, and as for myself, of course there is a curiosity. But I have decided that no, I don’t absolutely need to know. Because our physical attractiveness is just one part of us, it is what will attract a man, but it will not necessarily keep a good man. And why does it matter that every man think we are beautiful? When we think on it a little deeper, we come to realize that it’s only really important that one man find us beautiful.

Ladies, don’t worry about your “number.” Instead, strive to make yourself the most feminine and lovable woman possible.

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18 Comments

Filed under Attraction, Red Pill, Uncategorized, Women

18 responses to “The Answer is No

  1. I’ve always been an eleventy myself…

  2. thehaproject

    Whatever, Frank. You only became an eleventy last week.

  3. Jack

    She shouldn’t have a number assigned to her, but knowing what quartile she falls into will help her calibrate about what kind of men she’s likely to attract and possibly save her some heartbreak.

  4. This got me to thinking about some old black-and-white movie shorts that tried to teach boys and girls stuff like this (in the era when people started thinking “experts” on screen and in institutions could do everything better than amateurs at home, which led to parents abdicating their responsibility to the government and church schools. But I digress). I saw one for girls where the underlying message was, “Do your best with what you have.” It told them to be accessible but not easy, to get involved in extracurricular activities that boys are involved in, to be friends with other girls too, to introduce boys to your parents and let them guide you (so they can set a curfew, for instance, so you don’t have to argue with the boy over it).

    Some things they don’t mention, because they was assumed at the time, like the fact that a girl should dress like a girl and be feminine. And obesity wasn’t a problem then. But the gist is much like what Elspeth said: Do what you can with your looks, but put most of your effort into being desirable. A girl who wears skirts and knows how to use long hair, who can be coquettish without being slutty, who shows an interest in what I’m doing, just leaps out of the crowd these days.

    If I were trying to advise a girl on her prospects, I wouldn’t tell her a ranking. For one thing, if I’m close enough to her to be that involved and for her to believe me, I probably can’t be that objective about her anyway. I might try to give her a dose of reality: “At 32 with two kids, you’re not going to snag the 28-year-old podiatrist with a growing practice and a ski boat whom you’ve been dreaming about since you were 15. Let’s be real here.” But after that, I’d probably talk about her pros and cons: here are some things you should work on, and here are some good qualities you already have that you should emphasize.

  5. The scale is highly subjective. Once I talked with several women who had investigated their “number” on the scale, I quickly realized how subjective it was. Men really do have a wide variety of tastes and preferences when it comes to women, and this impacts the scale tremendously. It really requires a large sample of men whose answers you average together to get an accurate picture. And even then, that is an average.

    Perhaps this divide is because the traits women view as attractive are generally the same (i.e. tall, dominant, provider, muscular), while the traits men consider attractive in women are much more varied?

    [Ed: This does seem to be the case. At least, it appears that men prefer variety more than women in terms of physical appearance.]

  6. Elspeth

    Glad I was able to offer something constructive to the conversation; especially since I can easily morph into one of those crazy women Cane wrote about.

    I like the conclusions you to and Embracingyourfemininity’s comments were good too.

  7. earl

    When you have a society that has turned into a love affair with a sewer…it doesn’t take much to stand out.

    Basically being normal puts you in the top 20% for women.
    The flip side to this being normal as a man puts you in the bottom 80%.

  8. @ Jack

    Quartile is perhaps a better idea than a specific number. Although a better measure I think would be the unattractive, attractive and not-unattractive categories.

    @ Cail

    I know the ones you are talking about. Those are just one thing among many that need to see a return. Alas, I’m not holding my breath for that to happen.

    @ Elspeth

    Your comments are often insightful. Since you have young daughters who are right at the age of marriage, this is especially relevant to them.

    @ Earl

    When you have a society that has turned into a love affair with a sewer…it doesn’t take much to stand out.

    Pure gold right there. Thanks.

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  10. ” So even if she knows she is a “6″, she won’t necessarily be able to identify which men are “6s” that she should pay attention to. ”

    Indeed it is. Men I thought were of lower SMV turned out to be much higher on closer inspection, and the opposite also has happened.

  11. @ Emma

    Yes, discerning male SMV is terribly difficult. I think the only practical way of doing so is to know the “number” of the women the man can regularly “pull.” And that is still a poor estimation.

  12. jack

    To all the ladies: your number does not matter, really. What matters is what you can get.

    Look at all your beta orbiters and pick the most attractive one. That is very close to the best you can hope for in terms of marriage.

    You can have sex with hotter men, but you will not get them to commit.

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  14. Knowing the number is not necessary. Having some notion of relative position on the scale compared to one’s sphere of contacts is crucial.

    This topic is dangerous because women seek an out on things like this, meaning, this quickly morphs in her mind to, looks not important and any man who says so is an ogre.

  15. @ Empath

    I agree that some idea helps. Someone suggest quartile, and I think that has some merit. Perhaps simply knowing if you fall int he Attractive, Not Unattractive, and Unattractive categories would also work.

    And yes, the topic is dangerous. That is the main thrust of Cane Caldo’s argument.

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