Sign of the Times: The Old Order is Broken

[This is part 1 in a series of indeterminate length]

If there was anything that my Market Failure series (Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3) demonstrated, it is that the Old Order is broken. The traditional and customary methods young men and women (especially Christians) used for centuries to become married are no longer feasible in this day and age. What worked for young men and women to find a spouse even 50 years ago is no longer effective, and in fact might very well make matters worse. So how messed up are things?

1) “Dating” is the new norm- The old practice of courtship, with Gentleman-Callers and Ladies-in-Waiting, has been replaced by our present system of “dating.” If Wikipedia is to be believed, dating entered the lexicon, and common practice, in the Roaring Twenties. Dating, coupled with the Sexual Revolution, has been nothing but an utter disaster for young men and women. For one account of this, see here.

2) Marriage has become a trap for men- Dalrock and other bloggers in the manosphere have spent years detailing just how much of a legal, cultural and religious monstrosity marriage has become. While our civilization as a whole may be the ultimate victim, men have borne the brunt of the damage over the last few decades. The end result is that they are increasingly shunning marriage, although the full extent of that abdication from the institution is still unclear.

3) Women can no longer be passive- In the past a woman of quality, even one who was considered plain, could count on at least a few men calling upon her. Not only was it unnecessary for her to make her interest known, it was considered unladylike to do so. Unfortunately this passiveness no longer works in our current dating/marriage environment. Many men are taking part in the Sexual Marketplace, rather than the Marriage Marketplace, and so won’t pay such a woman any heed. In addition good men, who would make a suitable husband, have either given up on marriage or are so beaten down they won’t ask a girl out. If she wants a good man to notice her, a woman must make her interest clear. Otherwise she might wait forever for a man to make a move.

4) The Old Networks are gone- A young man or women used to be able to rely on extended family, friends, church and the community to help him or her find a good spouse. The whole community was invested in the process, and while not perfect, it often worked out for the best. Even those who were more on the homely side knew that they would receive help finding a spouse. That is all gone now, and nothing has taken its place.

5) Men are no longer Men, and Women are no longer Women– Somewhere along the lines our culture decided to switch gender roles around. We began teaching men to be “nice”, to be accommodating and to “get in touch with their feminine side.” Masculinity was derided and discouraged, even labeled brutish and primitive. Meanwhile, women were taught to be strong, independent and proud.  Feminine behavior and attitudes, like a quiet, gentle spirit, were discouraged in women. In short, men were taught to act like women and women were taught to act like men.

And the list goes on and on and on. All of our institutions seem to be falling apart. We hear of war and rumors of war. Yeats now seems like a prophet:

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

The Darkness gathers all around us, and it is all too easy to give in to despair. And yet… there is a light on the horizon…

[To be continued in Sign of the Times: You Are Not Alone]

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32 Comments

Filed under Marriage, Red Pill

32 responses to “Sign of the Times: The Old Order is Broken

  1. Höllenhund

    “The whole community was invested in the process, and while not perfect, it often worked out for the best. Even those who were more on the homely side knew that they would receive help finding a spouse. That is all gone now, and nothing has taken its place.”

    Clubs have, I guess.

  2. Anja

    donal,

    I love that poem! It’s incredible how often literature or poetry from the past is pertinent in the present, isn’t it?

    As for the problems of finding spouses, sadly you are right. The only way of finding a good spouse I can think of is school; you come across many people there and spend a lot of time with them, so you can get to know them without the dating. You get to see who’s similar to you in beliefs and values. It’s how I met my husband: we were high-school classmates.

  3. That’s why our grandfathers and great grandfathers never really needed game other than just being masculine….ladies ate that stuff up before the sexual revolution. They didn’t teach anything other than how to be a man.

    You could of even been more of a beta back then and still have the ability to pull a girl even if you were shy…just by the fact you were of the male gender seemed to do the trick. A good girl would give you some time and encourage you to bring out those masculine qualities.

  4. Yes! Yes! Yes! On all of them! Especially #3,#4,and #5…just all of them!

  5. Earl is correct, all man needs to be is masculine godly man (which is so rare these days) to attract a woman.

  6. Ton

    If that was the case Earl and a dozen other regulars I can think of would most likely be married by now.

    Final, ever read bowling alone? It covers the kind of general break down of social clubs/ systems

  7. @ Ton

    I do remember that. That was a seminal work on the breakdown of social networking inside America.

    @ Lovely

    You are right that being masculine attracts women. I can attest to that. The problem is attracting a woman worth marrying. But that gets to the next few posts, so I will stop here.

  8. deti

    Donal:

    You could do another post just on #1. “Dating” is the new norm. That’s how it should be titled, with the scare quotes around the first word.

    That’s because no one knows what “dating” is. According to some it’s hooking up; to others it’s hanging out; to still others it’s courting; to still others it’s going out to eat and watch a movie; or rent a movie, or do whatever and go wherever with whomever. Dating is getting together once in a while with someone of the opposite sex or it’s meeting up on Tuesday nights with a bed-buddy.

    Scott’s post that you linked to at SSM’s captures it perfectly. You start out trying to talk to girls you like. You’re somewhere in late junior high school or early high school. One out of several might like you well enough to engage you. A smaller number than that might like you a little more. You go here and there with her and engage in various degrees of emotional and sexual intimacy until one of you doesn’t want to do it anymore for whatever reason; then you start all over again. And on and on it goes through high school and college.

    Meet, spend money, touch, get naked, break up, Meet, eat, talk, kiss, break up. Meet, have sex, one of you regrets the sex, someone’s calls or texts aren’t returned. Meet, go on dates, hang out at your place, have sex. Break up, have ONS with other person, get back together with previous girl, stay together long enough through long distance relationship that exposes all your dysfunctions; you break up with her for the last time because you both hate each other and you can’t take it anymore. And you never quite figure out why nothing seems to be working. The times that a girl does seem to be into you, you can’t figure out what you did right.

    This is where #3 comes in (women cannot be passive). Girls and women make their own decisions on who they want to date, rather than who her parents (especially her father) thinks might be a good match for her. Essentially, she’s making decisions on who she wants to have sex with, and dating (sexing) those men. But no one helps the shy girls, the religious girls and the, well, homely girls. No one is out there trying to suggest men; or direct the lower value men their way.

    #5 (switching up gender roles) kicks in here too. You don’t know what to expect. If you’re sensitive, she doesn’t like it because it’s unattractive. If you’re hypermasculine, she won’t like that either because you’re a gorilla a**hole. If she’s sexually aggressive she’s a slut; if she’s strong/independent, she’s a bitch. If she’s quiet and demure, she’s a bible thumper or a doormat. If he’s devout and religious, he’s a wimp. If he escalates he’s a jerk; if he doesn’t escalate he’s probably gay.

    No one teaches you through it. No one coaches you. No one can teach or coach you, because there’s nothing to teach. There are no rules, no customs, no traditions, no constants, and no common frames of reference. It’s different for everyone. You learn it, as you must, from older boys, but they don’t really know what they’re doing either. The few who DO know what they’re doing can’t or won’t explain it, because they’re naturals. They don’t know how they do what they do, they just know to do it. Your mother foists her advice on you and exhorts you to “be nice”. Your dad, even more clueless than mom, doesn’t know what to tell you because he went through it too and he didn’t know either (and that’s assuming he even lives with you and is still married to your mother).

  9. No one teaches you through it. No one coaches you. No one can teach or coach you, because there’s nothing to teach. There are no rules, no customs, no traditions, no constants, and no common frames of reference. It’s different for everyone.

    That it, isn’t it? There is no single idea or concept of “dating” because it is a whole host of different activities smashed together under a single label. With dating you have the SMP and MMP living under the same roof, so close together that you can’t tell them apart.

  10. deti

    “There is no single idea or concept of “dating” because it is a whole host of different activities smashed together under a single label.”

    And the Church (the North American Church; i.e. American Christianity) has really fallen down on this. At least on social issues like intersexual relationships, the Church has allowed the dominant secular/feminist culture to coopt and subsume it, and with it the Church’s moral authority on all things sexual: sex, marriage, divorce, child rearing, etc. As you’ve seen in other posts and comments especially at Dalrock’s, there is an entire false theology that has sprung up to support this.

  11. theshadowedknight

    Speaking of signs of the times, and as it relates to your backup plan, Donal, I present this.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-06/poland-confiscates-half-private-pension-funds-cut-sovereign-debt-load

    Sorry, brother, but Poland might not be a good plan, anymore.

    The Shadowed Knight

  12. Ouch. Not a good sign for the EU that. As if they weren’t already going down the tubes.

    I appreciate the concern TSK, but living in Poland was never my backup plan. Rather, the plan was to go there to find a wife and then leave with her. Fascinatingly enough, that latest move by the Polish government actually makes my plan that much easier.

  13. Deti – You don’t know what to expect. If you’re sensitive, she doesn’t like it because it’s unattractive. If you’re hypermasculine, she won’t like that either because you’re a gorilla a**hole. If she’s sexually aggressive she’s a slut; if she’s strong/independent, she’s a bitch. If she’s quiet and demure, she’s a bible thumper or a doormat. If he’s devout and religious, he’s a wimp. If he escalates he’s a jerk; if he doesn’t escalate he’s probably gay.

    No one teaches you through it. No one coaches you. No one can teach or coach you, because there’s nothing to teach. There are no rules, no customs, no traditions, no constants, and no common frames of reference. It’s different for everyone.

    Remember the old phrase “structure provides freedom”? I’ve long known it’s true, but I’m discovering more and more of late just how true.

  14. #3 and #5 are really difficult for women who want to be good girls in biblical marriages. How does she make her interest known and pursue him but still behave in a feminine, demure way? I wrote a whole post about that but never published it. Maybe I’ll put it up at some point, but honestly I never really was able to figure out what such young women should do.

  15. How does she make her interest known and pursue him but still behave in a feminine, demure way?

    I don’t think a woman can do both while still being feminine and demure. Making her interest known? That she can do, and still be demure and feminine. April over at Peaceful Single Girl provided a good example of how a woman can make her interest known in an unassuming, demure way:

    I just thought I would tell you, in case you were wondering – if you asked me out, I would definitely say, “Yes!”

    But to pursue a man, that really isn’t compatible with a demure attitude. You can do it in a feminine way, but to be demure requires a reservation or modesty which doesn’t quite fit with active pursuit of a man.

    Women are in a bit of a conundrum in this, no doubt. But at the very least they need to make their interest known. That is probably the most important thing. After that, there isn’t as much that she can do.

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  17. Anja

    donal,

    as you’ve mentioned finding a wife in Poland – I think you might overestimate the appeal American men have here in Europe. You start on an even footing with all the local men with most women, you know, even lower than that with most. I know an American guy who’s not low status at all; he used to live in Poland for a few years; he managed to find a girlfriend there, but they split up (I don’t know why, exactly). He moved to my country now, and his plan was to find a girl here. Well, he hasn’t yet. I know for a fact most women here find him interesting, and would hang out with him, but that’s it. None of them is interested in a relationship and especially not marriage, if it means moving overseas. It might be a different in Poland, but I doubt there’s that much of a difference. From what he said it seems it’s more or less the same, even though their economy is a bit weaker.

    The point is, I guess, that you shouldn’t count upon finding a quality wife over here; those ones who actually would want to snatch an American husband and move there, you really want to avoid, because they are either low status and/or opportunistic. Those who you might considered wife material (from what I’ve seen on your blog) would probably chose to marry a fellow countryman instead, even if they liked you. In fact, I’m willing to go as far as to suggest they would opt for a Polish man even when they liked him less than you.

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  19. Thanks for that head up Anja.

  20. “If that was the case Earl and a dozen other regulars I can think of would most likely be married by now.”

    I know I would…I’m a spitting image of my grandfather both looks and personality and from what my grandmother told me before they were married he had no trouble with the ladies.

  21. If I was living back then that is I would be married easily.

    Today…it’s a crapshoot and based off the risk/reward it would probably be very difficult for me to take the plunge. It would be based on her personality.

  22. A lot of these concepts you are discussing here seem familiar: Bowling Alone, the Courtship Pledge, dating, the breakdown of civil society and the extended family.

    You know sometimes it takes an outsider…

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