“The List”: A Tool for Rebellion Against God

In my post “Men want Cinderella, not the Ugly Step-sisters“, I included an example of “The List.” Here it is again, courtesy of Visionary Daughters:

Dear God,

I have been very good this year, and I would really like it if you would bring me a husband who:

Is working to become just like Christ
Will love me just the way I am
Speaks several languages and plays several instruments
Will look past my inadequacies to see only my inner qualities
Is handsome
Will not be so carnally minded that he will care about the way I look
Isn’t interested in money
Can support me in the style I would like to be accustomed to
Is completely sold out for God
Will let me be myself

I know these are very righteous things to desire, and I have been patiently waiting and have not compromised my standards, so can you please reward my faithfulness now? Thank you.
Love, Janey

When reading a list like this, it doesn’t take you long to realize that no man alive fits the bill. Just look at these two lines:

Isn’t interested in money
Can support me in the style I would like to be accustomed to

There is an obvious contradiction here which borders on the ridiculous. Of course, this list was made in jest and is largely satirical, but I have seen real lists like it elsewhere. What they all have in common is that no human man can live up to them. Not a one. In fact, it almost seems like they were designed that way. Which leads to an interesting question: What if these Lists are in fact designed so that no man alive can hope to meet them?

What I am starting to suspect is that many Christian women who cling to “The List” do not want to get married. Oh, they may say they do. They may talk about marriage, about their wedding plans, and what they will name their children. But that is all a lie. In truth, they do not want to marry, and will try and put it off for as long as they can.


Because they do not want to submit.

These “Christian” women do not want to submit to their future husbands. They understand what the Bible teaches about marriage; they know what Ephesians 5 says, they know about Colossians 3 and 1 Peter 3. Christian marriage requires that they subject themselves to their husband’s authority, and they cannot accept this. The “Curse of Eve“, the natural rebelliousness of women towards male authority, has overtaken them. But at the same time they cannot simply reject these teachings outright. Not if they want to maintain their reputation as “Good Christian Girls” (“GCG”).

[I should mention at this point that for a lot of women they won’t realize this is what is happening. Their Hamster will work overtime to make rationalizations for their decisions. Very few, if any, may act consciously in this regard. But rebellion still lies in their hearts.]

So they look for ways around this. The List is the most prominent method of avoiding marriage, but there are others.  Mission trips are another perfect example; they are time consuming and take the woman out of the dating/courtship market for a long time, plus they also provide the appearance of piety. Repeat this enough and soon they are too old to marry, which suits them just fine.

There might be another face of this rebelliousness which I did not consider until now, but cannot dismiss out of hand. Many Christian manospherians have lamented how so many single Christian women at church would ignore the Christian men there and refuse to date them. A number of explanations have been offered for this: Churchian culture teaching men to be weak and thus unattractive, toxic hypergamy by the women which no Christian male could meet, a disturbing tendency for such women to focus their attentions on a single male at Church to the exclusion of the others, and the lure of forbidden fruit in the form of bad boy non-Christian men. But perhaps there is an alternative reason for this behavior: the women ignore the Christian men because they know that if they marry them, it would be expected that they live Christian marriages. Which would mean wifely submission, which they refuse to adhere to. Therefore, they completely ignore the Christian men at church.

As an addendum to the above, this might also explain why some Christian women will date/sleep with/marry non-Christian men. Perhaps their aversion to submission is so strong that they would prefer to associate with non-Christian men, in the hopes that if they do marry, they won’t be expected /required to submit to their husband.

I would hazard a guess that anything which enables them to delay or avoid marrying is acceptable to these “Christian” women. All because they refuse to submit. The prophet Jeremiah, in the days of yore, described this perfectly:

But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart;
they have turned aside and gone away.

(Jeremiah 5:23)

Thoughts and opinions on this theory by my readers are welcomed, by the way.


Filed under Christianity, Churchianity, Fitness Test, Marriage, Men, Red Pill, The Church, Women

21 responses to ““The List”: A Tool for Rebellion Against God

  1. jack

    Don’t forget plausible deniability.

  2. I had a femitroll serve me the egalitarian line that Jesus washed his disciples feet, therefore servant leadership, mutual submission(!!!), Deborah was a judge, and that talk of authority over the wife has to be understood in the context of the culture Paul lived in and does not apply to us today, etc, etc, hamster spin, hamster spin.

    Once I rebuffed her, she wrote two extensive posts about how my attitude would only attract emotionally damaged women (because only such women will submit to their husbands) and that I would likely physically and emotionally abuse whoever had the misfortune of marrying me.

    So I definitely agree there is a spirit of rebellion going on here. It’s funny because I believe if they allowed themselves the experience of being submissive to a decent guy just ONCE, they’d be right surprised that it doesn’t produce quite the traumatic result they thought it would.

  3. Ellie

    You know, lists do serve as a way girls who are intent upon remaining chaste can combat that hot player… she thought through the list and decided to stick with it and he does not match up (to her sorrow, lol)… It is like an external self-control as backup for when you are weak. I realize that a lot of women don’t use them this way, but I did.

  4. deti

    “These “Christian” women do not want to submit to their future husbands. They understand what the Bible teaches about marriage;”

    Agree with the first sentence. The second, not so much.

    I don’t think most Christian women understand what the Bible teaches about marriage and a wife’s role in it. They’re being sold a false theology that tickles their ears and doesn’t offend them:

    1. “Mutual submission”
    2. heavy overemphasis on the husband’s obligation to love her as Christ loved the church
    3. he has to earn respect and submission
    4. she does not have to respect or submit to him if he is in any way “in sin” or “disobedient”
    5. she has the right to second guess his decisions and run them past a pastor to make sure he is “leading her properly”

  5. @ Frank

    There is a general rebellious spirit in this age, no doubt. And you are right about the tragedy of it all… if they only submitted to a good man, their lives would be so much better.

    @ Ellie

    There are “good lists”, and then there are lists like the one I mentioned. I saw something similar to it a few weeks back courtesy of Society of Phineas, and it wasn’t much different than the one above. My intention was not to disparage good lists (women should have them, although they shouldn’t be 363 bullet points long), but rather to explain why some women make up impossible lists.

    @ Deti

    You might be right for a lot of churches. But not all churches teach false doctrine, even today. Many still play lip service to scripture. And even if they are taught false teachings, they still feel the subtle call to submit, and resist this all the same.

  6. How you should know if a woman is not submissive before marrying her or doesn’t want to submit to a husband is determined by how she honors her parents.
    Deti is correct, in that most Christians don’t really know about the “wives submit to your own husbands” or believe it is not longer relative to today. Most Christian women believe in mutual submission and so, I don’t think the long list is for fear of submitting to their husbands because they don’t really buy that anyway.
    I think, as women, we can over value our selves and think that we deserve some awesome guy who doesn’t exist and it would below us to settle for less. Of course this thinking is wrong.
    I think ButterflyFlower picked up on this when she mentioned that there are lot of suitable Christian men in her church, which is why she doesn’t understand the claim that “there are no good men anymore”.

  7. Maybe I should do a post about what chaste Christian women are looking for in men, in terms of quality, not physical attraction since I think that is relative to the individual.

  8. I agree Lovely that a woman’s relations with her parents are key. Especially her relationship with her father. A young woman who has a strong connection with her father, who respects and obeys him, is a woman who is more likely to submit.

    Also, that sounds like a good idea for a post.

  9. “A young woman who has a strong connection with her father, who respects and obeys him, is a woman who is more likely to submit.”
    I completely agree with this comment.

  10. Lovely/Donal: One thing I’ve been mulling over in my mind lately has been daughters’ relationships with fathers. I think the decline of male authority is in part responsible for more common/severe shit tests. Women face a dilemma: they must assess fitness, but also want to come across as sweet and feminine. The solution that’s worked in the past: have the father be the heavy, leaving her to be sweetness and light. Dudes that pass this test get a bit of alpha rubbed off from them from the girl’s dad. Everyone wins.

  11. Interesting thoughts Dropit. I can certainly believe it, as it plays into the natural female passive/aggressive inclination.

    One thing is for certain: Father’s no longer being involved in their daughter’s relationship/romantic/courtship lives has been absolutely disastrous.

  12. an observer

    lists do serve as a way girls who are intent upon remaining chaste can combat that hot player… 


    How many christian, non-alpha men have been ljbf’d by a list-toting woman, who promptly threw herself on the nearest bad bow?

    Nowadays, i figure it was a cathartic experience. The man got to see her true hypergamy. And the girl got to wash herself of the trauma of interaction with an icky beta.

    Can’t have her accurately contemplating her smv, now.

  13. Donal, you may be on to something.

    When I got engaged at 19, all of the “Good Girl” devout church ladies who allegedly supported early marriage, flipped the lid. They told me I was only getting married to have sin-free-sex, my fiance was too old for me, tried to convince me to call off my engagement, said I would end up divorced.

    I was soooo confused. I thought they’d be the people who would be most supportive!

    I realize now my engagement damaged their charade. A good Christian girl like me was supposed to go on missions ’till her late 20’s, than get married. The older women who were unsupportive were trying to cover for their 20-something daughters who were mission focused and delaying marriage.

  14. an observer

    Bf, you do realise that church girls with a missions focus are often overcompensating for the purpose and intimacy that marriage and childbearing were meant to provide?

    Plus, it dulls their glaringly average smv rank, their high n count and strong rebellious streak.

    Come to think of it,embracing faux spirituality is kind of a career on its own, isnt it. And every girl is supposed to have a career, now.

  15. Pingback: Lightning Round – 2013/08/07 | Free Northerner

  16. proverbs31

    I agree that a lot of Christian women don’t want to, or don’t know what it means to submit. I can honestly say that as a single woman in my late 20’s, I am just now learning what it means to submit. I love it when a man takes the lead & makes the final decisions.

  17. I love it when a man takes the lead & makes the final decisions.

    I suspect this is the case for nearly all women, but most are too afraid to say it. Which is said, because embracing this means embracing a way of life that leads to greater happiness and contentment than you will find elsewhere.

  18. proverbs31

    You are right. I am not afraid to say that….at all. It is very attractive when a man takes charge & puts me in my place if I happen to say something that questions his manhood or that he feels is disrespect. I love a manly Christian man.

  19. I love a manly Christian man.

    And I hope you find one (or he finds you).

    Are you new to this part of the web, or have we just missed one another before now?

  20. proverbs31


    I’m new to your blog… I discovered it yesterday through the Peaceful Single Girl blog. All your articles I’ve read so far have been very insightful & your thoughts are intriguing to me. I’m sure other women appreciate a man’s perspective.

  21. Pingback: Reality Versus Reason | Donal Graeme

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